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  1. #141
    Mechagnome Sweetz's Avatar
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    Such ignorance ...

    You put it as if PVPers don't get any gold from doing what they like, while PVEers (read: Raiders) get gold for doing what they like.
    This is absolutely not the case.

    As a raider (a good one, anyway) you need a minimum of 40 potions (this ammount changes alot, this is what I'd go with if I didn't know what was coming without going overboard), 1 flask per hour (unless you're an alchemist, then it's 1 per 2 hours), 30 food buffs (again changes alot, but 75% of potion quantity seems reasonable) and the repair bill.
    With current auction house prices that makes one 4-hour raid cost 600g for the flasks, 1050g for the foods (275 stats), 300g for potions. So that's 1950 gold for one raid, assuming that you have 30 pulls and 10 bosskills. You do get some gold from kills, I am not sure exactly how much, but it's a lot less than 1950 gold.

    How much does one night of PVPing cost for you?

    I am not considering buying epic gear for PVP or PVE ofc, since PVE wins that fight when it comes to being expensive many times over.

    Economy is a part of WoW, it doesn't matter of you're killing players or dragons. That's the way it should be imho, in spite of how much I hate farming. It just seems right, for an MMORPG.
    Bloodline Champions is a nice arena game without any economy (last time I checked anyway).

  2. #142
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    What do PvP players need gold for?
    Apparently one guy in this thread uses flask and potions for battlegrounds and a few of them are just pure lazy and entitled for gold because they pvp in addition they can only play 1-2 hours an example of OP

    That's what I got out of it

  3. #143
    PvP does not and should not make gold.

    In general, pvp doesn't COST gold. Arenas ban the use of consumables, as do RBGs. In pve, hard fights are balanced around the steady use of potions, two per attempt per raider. Wipes cost huge percent of your life- the dura loss from being +combat is truly trivial, and that's all pvpers deal with.

    The pve actions that create gold are available to pvp players. Questing, professions, farming. These are all pve, but this symmetry is not the same.

    Leveling, grinding, professons, auction house -> these activities have no "pvp equivalent" are are adequately accessible to all players that play the game. If all you want is just nonstop pvp punching, head to the arena tournament realms to avoid all this stuff.

    Dungeons, LFR -> this is the equivalent of regular battlegrounds. This pve level has a pvp equivalent. These are not high profit activities for pve players, but they can involve a decent loss of gold. The only gold to make as pvp is to run around with the darkmoon faire guide and loot all the corpses.

    Reg mode raiding -> this is the equivalent of casual arena and RBG play. Loot flows pretty fleely, but there's a time commitment and you have to set stuff up.
    Hard mode raiding -> this is the equivalent of high level arena play. Loot is the best in the game, but is hard won.

    Neither of these two makes much gold for their players. Raiding costs TONS of gold, pvp at this level does not. I could make a case that pvp should simply cost more gold than it does already. If it cost as much as a raid, then completing a BG could deliver gold in small amounts as a raid does, but it's much better for the pvp players to have it set up like it is now.

  4. #144
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    What do PvP players need gold for?
    Isnt it obvious? The same stuff people everyone else needs to min/max your gear set? To enchant gear, reforging, gemming, glyph changing, respeccing and profession leveling for the stat perks? Since PvP'ers need the best possibly stuff to remain competetive, one needs to spend several thousand of golds for meta gems, belt buckles, expensive weapon and bracer enchants, epic gems (in case of DS) etc.

    One could argue that unless you are killing everything pre-nerf in raids you don't need stuff like epic gems or sha crystal enchants, however PvP'ers will need to optimize their gear to not be at a disadvantage in competetive PvP.

  5. #145
    TL;DR: Give me money for doing nothing. Not how the world (of warcraft) works

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkeoughjr View Post
    You need gold to make gold, pvpers make no gold what so ever so after being broke my the huge 3k gold lvling 85-90 and buying flying or gems their broke this noway to buy stuff cheap to sell it expensive
    Let me see if I'm doing it right...
    You can't fly in PvP so you don't need to purchase it. Flying is purely PvE.
    So what you're saying is "I don't want to do PvE that requires effort, but I want the cool stuff for PvE! Oh, I mean...I WAN'T TO PVP AND NEED GOLD!!!!!"

    How many gems and enchants did all your flying mounts (non-gladiator ones that I'm sure you have every season) cost? What about those non-honor land mounts?
    Surely you don't buy vanity items either since it's PvE.

  7. #147
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    work your professions like everyone else does. they are not PVE based. hell you dont even need to leave the city.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    Sigma : Super Intelligent Giant Moldy Anchovy

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggma View Post
    work your professions like everyone else does. they are not PVE based. hell you dont even need to leave the city.
    Okay, I'll skip the sarcasm on this one. What do you mean by "you don't even need to leave the city?" All the expensive things you can make in this expansion require Spirits of Harmony. Unless you're also implying these PVP-centric players chain-run dungeons all day to gather them, then yes, they'll need to leave the city. On my server, green leg enchants are down as low as 4g a piece now. Living Steel is going to dip below 500g. Both of those require leaving the city in order to make a profit as the parts themselves are more expensive than the result.
    Enjoyed Draenor questing. If you ignore the end of Nagrand, it's almost as good as 5.0.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Isnt it obvious? The same stuff people everyone else needs to min/max your gear set? To enchant gear, reforging, gemming, glyph changing, respeccing and profession leveling for the stat perks? Since PvP'ers need the best possibly stuff to remain competetive, one needs to spend several thousand of golds for meta gems, belt buckles, expensive weapon and bracer enchants, epic gems (in case of DS) etc.
    And "pve" players don't get this stuff for free either. While enchanting mats DO drop in raids (as a consolation mostly once people stop needing gear), that's about the only thing. Raiding doesn't produce a steady stream of income, it's a GIANT gold sink, as raiders need all the same stuff a pvper needs, but also needs food, flasks, tons of potions, and much larger repairs.

    None of my raiders profit from raiding in gold. Never once in any tier! Raiders often have to slug through more tiers of fully enchanted gears than pvpers, as well.

    The point is, raiders get gold from doing stuff like:

    -> Farming Herbs
    -> Mining
    -> Skinning
    -> Clever combinations with tradeskill professions
    -> Playing the Auction House
    -> Farming mobs for materials

    None of these things are raiding. They are only barely "pve", by our definition at least, in that they are a time sink, and are a service to other players, exchanging time, moxie, and cleverness for an in-game resource that we can use to better our characters, which lets us do the content we want to do- which is raiding, but also pvp.

    So no, a pvp player who is running around in WoW is part of the same economy, and shouldn't get a free pass here. The fact that some of you think raiding is profitable in gold is pretty damned hilarious to begin with.



    One could argue that unless you are killing everything pre-nerf in raids you don't need stuff like epic gems or sha crystal enchants, however PvP'ers will need to optimize their gear to not be at a disadvantage in competetive PvP.[/QUOTE]

  10. #150
    I actually agree with the OP. If I level up a toon using only the Dungeon Finder, that toon will make itself plenty of gold to pay for everything it needs. If you level in battlegrounds, though, you'll be flat broke and will have to fund the toon with an alt.

    I'm not saying PvP should be especially lucrative, but there should at least be the same level of gold reward that you would get from a dungeon.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Griffter View Post
    I'm not saying PvP should be especially lucrative, but there should at least be the same level of gold reward that you would get from a dungeon.
    This is pretty much my stance as well. You spend about the same amount of time in dungeons or random BGs and ultimately one gives you gear and gold and the other gives you gear.
    Enjoyed Draenor questing. If you ignore the end of Nagrand, it's almost as good as 5.0.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Tearor View Post
    Yes, but very little compared to the 10% durability loss every single wipe.
    Stop wiping then?
    Guilds cover repair costs anyway.
    Or if they were a good guild they would.. but then maybe they wouldn't wipe if they were good..
    hmm.. think I found your problem.

    PvP has durability loss, yes it's less than PvE but then the reward doesn't have to be as high. How does giving the PvP'er the standard daily quest 10g (or whatever it is I never look) for winning the random daily hurt anyone? They only get to do that quest once a day.

  13. #153
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingersenshi View Post
    Stop wiping then?
    Guilds cover repair costs anyway.
    Or if they were a good guild they would.. but then maybe they wouldn't wipe if they were good..
    hmm.. think I found your problem.

    PvP has durability loss, yes it's less than PvE but then the reward doesn't have to be as high. How does giving the PvP'er the standard daily quest 10g (or whatever it is I never look) for winning the random daily hurt anyone? They only get to do that quest once a day.
    Ahahaha!!!! I wanna make fun of you but I can't I really can't! Top tier guilds wipe 50++ a night how do you think they feel compared to a PVP perpsective It's a joke hell even medicore garbage guilds do progression and they will wipe and wipe until the end of the time and they will do more of a repair cost then us ''pvpers'' will ever come by then you will ever possible know

    Oh wait I get it you haven't seen or been in a top tier guild have you doing wipe after wipe after wipe struggling to finish the race, ~Points at Paragon's 500+ Wipes on Heroic Ragnaros how much total gold did they spend I wonder?

    I rest my case

    I'm a casual pvper in this expansion and to make gold is simple, USE YOUR PROFESSIONS. Not hard is it apparently it is for some of you ~Shakes head~ Ahahah!
    Last edited by N-aix; 2012-10-25 at 02:30 AM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Telila View Post
    Wait....PvP'ers never do dailies? No-one told me

    What you really meant was:

    "I don't do dailies, so make a way for me to get the same reward as people who do"

    I don't like dailies either, but if reward > pointless effort I do them. If it doesn't, I don't. Simple. Find what works for you, rather than asking here
    what about some kind of pvp daily? like win x amount of bgs, or kill x players, or w/e

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Ahahaha!!!! I wanna make fun of you but I can't I really can't! Top tier guilds wipe 50++ a night how do you think they feel compared to a PVP perpsective It's a joke hell even medicore garbage guilds do progression and they will wipe and wipe until the end of the time and they will do more of a repair cost then us ''pvpers'' will ever come by then you will ever possible know

    Oh wait I get it you haven't seen or been in a top tier guild have you doing wipe after wipe after wipe struggling to finish the race, ~Points at Paragon's 500+ Wipes on Heroic Ragnaros how much total gold did they spend I wonder?

    I rest my case

    I'm a casual pvper in this expansion and to make gold is simple, USE YOUR PROFESSIONS. Not hard is it apparently it is for some of you ~Shakes head~ Ahahah!

    Where did I say I had a problem with money? I'm a casual PvE and PvP player now, I did play "less-casually" back in TBC as my Guilds MT, so money was never good for me, literally ALL my money went on repairs and making sure I was gemmed and enchanted properly.
    Hell I didn't even get my Epic flyer until wrath.

    Now money isn't an issue, still doesn't make any sense why I can spend 10 minutes in the random dungeon of the day, not wipe despite not having to work harder than drool on the buttons, and still make 15g, where I don't for PvP.
    I don't have a sense of entitlement, most don't. I'd like a little more fairness and consistency across all the games different aspects. You can earn gold Pet-battling ffs, beating the NPCs gives you gold, beating other players in PvP doesn't? pff

  16. #156
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingersenshi View Post
    Are you in a top guild? If you were you'd be finished the content by now and wouldn't be wiping.
    Where did I say I had a problem with money? I'm a casual PvE and PvP player now, I did play "less-casually" back in TBC as my Guilds MT, so money was never good for me, literally ALL my money went on repairs and making sure I was gemmed and enchanted properly.
    Hell I didn't even get my Epic flyer until wrath.

    Now money isn't an issue, still doesn't make any sense why I can spend 10 minutes in the random dungeon of the day, not wipe despite not having to work harder than drool on the buttons, and still make 15g, where I don't for PvP.
    I don't have a sense of entitlement, most don't. I'd like a little more fairness and consistency across all the games different aspects. You can earn gold Pet-battling ffs, beating the NPCs gives you gold, beating other players in PvP doesn't? pff
    Easy counter, Many top guilds continue to wipe and wipe regardless of outcome. They wipe to stupid mistakes all the time, You obviously haven't experienced it unfortunately. So I'll make one last statement before I well do my PVP daily here myself

    Use your professions to gain the gold or don't get gold at all. Simple as that

    Finishing content doesn't mean people won't wipe; A LOT of guilds finish content and they still wipe to stupid stuff.

    However it wouldn't hurt to give it gold for at least the daily so I'll agree with that even then It's not a big deal really
    Last edited by N-aix; 2012-10-25 at 02:48 AM.

  17. #157
    Of course you can always stop being a lazy ass entitled whiner and earn gold like everyone else. Besides, if you only can play the game for an hour or two at a time, why do you even need gold in the first place. If all you are doing in some bg's and maybe a little arena, you dont actually need gold for much of anything.
    Last edited by Gsara; 2012-10-25 at 02:50 AM.

  18. #158
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamora View Post
    As a 100% PvE player, I can still agree with this. Monetary rewards from arena similar to that of raiding, and for battlegrounds similar to that of 5-man instances totally make sense.
    Yeah I mean what this guy said. I'm a bout 85% PvP and 15% PvE as a player. I can understand the point made about PvEr's not enjoying dailies or that stuff either, which I totally get, I'm right there with you.

    However, would it really be that hard or that big of a deal to give a PvP daily quest [Get 20 Killing Blows Today in BG's] Reward: 15g. (Weekly) [Win 10 Arena Matches This Week] Reward: 112g.

    I see what Endus is saying about the flasks etc. But you gotta think, PvE players who like to JUST raid and do dungeons, still are getting a Gold bonus for EVERY dungeon and EVERY raid and EVERY Raid boss kill. That adds up relatively quickly. Sure, it's there to pay for things like repairs, food, and flasks, and especially at the start of an expansion, those things generally cost more than the "default" gold you would earn, but still. I still have to buy gems and enchants for my PvP gear. I still have to pay to reforge. I'd like to transmog my gear.

    Is this an excuse to NOT do dailies and such? Of course not. Just because I like to PvP doesn't mean I should just get to skip all the annoying stuff. All I'm saying is that it'd be nice to have that small amount of (essentially) "passive" gold coming in just like a PvEr gets for Dungeons and Raids. Sure the extra gold you need to pay for more expensive things should come from Dailies, professions, etc. But there's no reason I shouldn't get 15g from a BG win or 150g a week for winning 10 arena's.

    If you truly want PvE and PvP to be on an even keel with gold profits, you have to ignore Dailies/Professions/Any other side way of making gold, and look at the basics. BGs=Dungeons, Arenas=Raids. You get a set amount of gold, plus a little extra, from both of those PvE options. Why can't I get that little bit to pay for my new item's reforge or whatever too?
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  19. #159
    I Agree with op of this thread

  20. #160
    In our guild, small & non-raiding, we 'carry' pure pvp players when we get them and pay their repairs though I have been in guilds where PvPers get no repairs paid for as they contribute nothing in gold to the guild at all.

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