1. #1

    Brewmaster Onceover. Help is Appreciated.

    Good afternoon folks!

    A little about myself: I started seriously tanking as a Paladin in Cataclysm, where I powerlevelled my Tauren Paladin in Firelands. Fell in love with the role immediately, and rushed every single tank up to 90. In Dragon Soul, I phased out my Paladin, and started focusing on a Druid tank. Loved how interesting it was, and enjoyed it so much, I had two separate druids able to raid Dragon Soul.

    For Pandaria, I decided to focus on my Druid for my first tank for raiding and ended up very much disliking it. The active tanking changes to druids left a bad taste in my mouth, and I was very much unhappy, so I rolled a Monk and fell in love immediately, though now I am finding myself with egg on my face.

    My first raid on my druid failed miserably, and it was an absolutely awful time for all those involved, and I blame myself. My reforges were wrong, my rotation was off and I was not adequately prepared for it at all. I don't want this to happen again.

    I've been lurking throughout Elitist Jerks, the Official WoW forums as well as these forums trying to figure out what specifically to do as a Brewmaster, and am pretty much overwhelmed.

    There are so many suggestions flying every which way, and am having a rather hard time making heads and tails of everything.

    After distilling everything, here is what I am striving to do.

    For secondary stats, my weightings are as follows:

    Hit(7.5%) = Expertise(7.5%) > Haste > Crit > Mastery

    Essentially, any mastery on my gear is switched to Hit or Expertise until the cap, and then to haste where I can.

    Gemming is a bit different.

    For red slots (Ignoring expertise to get to cap) I am using Agi-Haste, For yellow slots, I am using haste and Stamina, for blue slots (ignoring any hit to get to cap), I would be doing haste and stamina, and I'm using the Stamina and Armor meta gem.

    For enchants, I'm going for expertise cap, and then haste, stamina and agility (I am not entirely enchanted yet, but that will come in time)

    As for the rotation, I am opening up with a Keg Smash, and then a Blackout Kick, and then phasing into my pattern.

    1. Guard when I have three Tiger Palms up.
    2. Keg Smash on Cooldown.
    3. Blackout Kick.
    4. Expel Harm.
    5. Jab
    6. Tiger Palm when I have nothing better to do.

    As for purifying brew, when I reach a moderate stagger, that will become my highest priority.

    Sorry if this seems all over the place, but i'm trying to get everything down as best I can.

    My monk's name is Lotusbrew on Kil'Jaeden-US if you would like to look her up.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please don't be afraid to tell me that I'm doing everything wrong!

  2. #2
    Seems like you got it down pretty good if you ask me. That's how I run.
    You can use hit in blue sockets btw, unless you feel you need the stamina.

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    My personal opinion is you shouldn't gem for agility. Everything else looks good though.

  4. #4
    From what people have told me, you gem for pure haste after exp/hit caps an all slots, unless the socket bonus is 60 agility or higher.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irreama View Post
    As for the rotation, I am opening up with a Keg Smash, and then a Blackout Kick, and then phasing into my pattern.

    1. Guard when I have three Tiger Palms up.
    2. Keg Smash on Cooldown.
    3. Blackout Kick.
    4. Expel Harm.
    5. Jab
    6. Tiger Palm when I have nothing better to do.

    As for purifying brew, when I reach a moderate stagger, that will become my highest priority.

    Sorry if this seems all over the place, but i'm trying to get everything down as best I can.

    My monk's name is Lotusbrew on Kil'Jaeden-US if you would like to look her up.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please don't be afraid to tell me that I'm doing everything wrong!
    Couple of notes on rotation (at least in my opinion)
    1) Guard: I personally will sometimes open with Guard after BoK right away if I don't want to be completely without it for 3 full GCD's which is also ticking away at when you need to hit BoK again. After that you should have 3 stacks of TP for the rest of the fight in most cases anyways. This is situational.
    2) I clear Stagger at Moderate + but if Shuffle is about to drop I'll use the Chi on that first and fuel PB with an Expel Harm which will heal the extra dot ticks you took anyways or the next Jab/KS I can affoard. I just can't justify letting 20% stagger/20% parry drop just to prevent a few ticks of the dot.

    You need to finish gemming/reforging/enchanting your gear: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...eden/lotusbrew

    You'll notice that I have you listed in WW DW spec but that is because it's better at hitting the hit/expertise soft caps (7.48%/7.54%) and squeezing in more haste (+2.45% over current setup). If you want to look at your BiS or gearing suggestions you'll need to swap it back to BrM DW. Also ignore the Meta Gem suggestion you can look at the tank guide here for the correct suggestions.

    Also, Weak Aura's in a must, check out the thread and give it a try I couldn't live without them now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ergar View Post
    From what people have told me, you gem for pure haste after exp/hit caps an all slots, unless the socket bonus is 60 agility or higher.
    Red the Agil+Haste combo is pretty efficient as most of our gear gives Agil/Haste/Crit as a bonus so they seem worth chasing for me.

    Yellow will pretty much always be pure haste and Haste+Hit for blue if you aren't trying to stack more Stam. I've managed to clear 4/6 Normal without any stam gems or trinkets (working on Elegon now). I'd expect anyone else can too with just the standard accepted stat priority's.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-10-23 at 07:07 PM.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    You'll notice that I have you listed in WW DW spec but that is because it's better at hitting the hit/expertise soft caps (7.48%/7.54%) and squeezing in more haste (+2.45% over current setup). If you want to look at your BiS or gearing suggestions you'll need to swap it back to BrM DW. Also ignore the Meta Gem suggestion you can look at the tank guide here for the correct suggestions.
    Would that be for the enchants and gems as well, or just reforges?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Also, Weak Aura's in a must, check out the thread and give it a try I couldn't live without them now.
    I've made my own little auras myself. I currently have a giant warning for Moderate and Heavy stagger, as well as one counting my EB stacks and uptime, and time left on stagger. Are there any others you would suggest?

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irreama View Post
    Would that be for the enchants and gems as well, or just reforges?

    I've made my own little auras myself. I currently have a giant warning for Moderate and Heavy stagger, as well as one counting my EB stacks and uptime, and time left on stagger. Are there any others you would suggest?
    More or less but what is available for each armor slot is a bit more limited so you'll see in one slot mastery is applied for lack of a better option. I also have "cheap" enchants selected which you can undo if your ready to start splurging on the good stuff (the weapon enchants alone are like 15k on my server...so I'm sticking to Windsong)

    I'm just using one of the "priority" strings from the WA thread that shows KS, EH (if health not 100%), Guard CD, EB > 9 stacks, and TP if < 8 seconds remain or < 3 stacks. Then I have another that creates a red/yellow/red aura around my char depending on Stagger level.

    You may want to grab some extras that shows other longer CD's like Fort Brew, Xuen, AH/Zen Med, ect but I'm used to doing that manually from playing my DK. Elvui is fine for my Chi and Energy for me but there are mods that can make that more visible to you as well.

    Also, don't forget to pick up your GotO orbs as this is something no mod or UI can really help you with..
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-10-23 at 07:29 PM.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire DaHomieG's Avatar
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    Get Glyph of Breath of Fire. After that, open up with Keg Smash, then Breath of Fire, and then follow with two Jabs and a Blackout Kick, and then repeat until out of energy, and Tiger Palm it until you have enough energy to Jab again. Insert Guard when necessary after 3 Tiger Palms, and refresh Breath of Fire when it's almost up. Don't forget to Keg Smash every time it's available; it's your hardest hitting move.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    More or less but what is available for each armor slot is a bit more limited so you'll see in one slot mastery is applied for lack of a better option. I also have "cheap" enchants selected which you can undo if your ready to start splurging on the good stuff (the weapon enchants alone are like 15k on my server...so I'm sticking to Windsong)
    Thankfully, my guild is good about sharing enchants, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

    Thank you very much for the help!

  10. #10
    For 5 mans, using Purifying Brew while at moderate is fine, but in raids when you'll be getting heavy stagger quite fast, it's not that good to be using it whenever you get moderate. You should wait until you get heavy (it'll proc a visual indication warning you to use PB) or else you'll be using PB every few seconds and not have enough chi to maintain Shuffle from BOK or Guard.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~Jesus of Nazareth

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sengura View Post
    For 5 mans, using Purifying Brew while at moderate is fine, but in raids when you'll be getting heavy stagger quite fast, it's not that good to be using it whenever you get moderate.
    I'm not sure I can agree with this on normal modes. Looking at my own logs it depends a little on the fight but you probably wont be hitting heavy stagger that often anyways so may depend on how much you need to save chi for your lvl 30 talents.

    Stone Guard: Moderate stagger every 19.18 seconds. 0 Heavy Stagger. Since almost all tank damage is physical I feel it's good to keep it cleared frequently.
    Feng: 8 Moderate stagger, 0 Heavy. Pretty sure I can find 8 chi through out the fight to clear it at moderate.
    Gara: 11 Moderate, 2 heavy, total uptime of 16.5%. Clearing every 27.69 seconds seems worth it since you can take some weird spikes from his shadow attacks and adds focus firing you. Plus you can build up a nice shuffle buffer when you get ported and are off tanking.
    Spirit Kings: 20 Moderate, 5 Heavy. Came out to clearing about every 29.55 seconds and all the heavy's were probably from the Crazed guy during high insanity, which is really the only time you are in danger of dying.

    I manage to work in a fair number of Chi Wave's on most fights so I can't be that Chi starved as I prioritize keeping Shuffle+Guard up as close to 100% as is realistic.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  12. #12
    I have never seen heavy stagger in my normal runs.

  13. #13
    There is so much misinformation out there. /sigh

    Gems - Anything agi+secondary stats for yellow, blue, etc. Red = agi. Do not gem for hit/expertise/haste/crit/mastery.
    Meta - Agile Primal.

    Stagger depends on the fight, but clearing it at Moderate is a good goal. Even in Heroic there will be times you wont see Heavy.

    Every fight will use different talents, glyphs, etc. Swap out as necessary to maximize your effectiveness.

    Currently on pretty much every fight I am demolishing the other tanks dmg-wise and dmg-taken wise straight across the board in our runs. Ranked several times tonight on the 1st two Heroic and those are gimmicky fights and some RNG is needed, aka 2 dogs always, good reversal procs, etc. The attempt before the kill on guards I was hitting 160k dps. Too bad we were teaching 3 new people all the encounters...

    8(

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    There is so much misinformation out there. /sigh

    Gems - Anything agi+secondary stats for yellow, blue, etc. Red = agi. Do not gem for hit/expertise/haste/crit/mastery.
    Meta - Agile Primal.

    Stagger depends on the fight, but clearing it at Moderate is a good goal. Even in Heroic there will be times you wont see Heavy.

    Every fight will use different talents, glyphs, etc. Swap out as necessary to maximize your effectiveness.

    Currently on pretty much every fight I am demolishing the other tanks dmg-wise and dmg-taken wise straight across the board in our runs. Ranked several times tonight on the 1st two Heroic and those are gimmicky fights and some RNG is needed, aka 2 dogs always, good reversal procs, etc. The attempt before the kill on guards I was hitting 160k dps. Too bad we were teaching 3 new people all the encounters...

    8(
    I just ran the #s, and haste and crit both yield almost identical increase in # of crits.
    Which only leaves passive dodge via agility v/s increased Chi production.

    I am not so sure we are at the point where extra chi is no longer beneficial at this point.
    Regardless, I wouldn't say there is misinformation floating around, and instead say that the difference is likely quite small.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    Gems - Anything agi+secondary stats for yellow, blue, etc. Red = agi. Do not gem for hit/expertise/haste/crit/mastery.
    Meta - Agile Primal.
    Sorry but you are wrong on the gems, please show me any guide or reforge calculator that indicates an agil gem for yellow or red is superior to the amount of secondary stats you get. The amount of secondary stats MoP gems provide has made them superior to primary stat gems in most cases.

    Yes gemming Agil doesn't exactly "hurt" you but pretty sure that statement doesn't match up with the community accepted method.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  16. #16
    Just because someone writes a "guide" doesn't mean it is correct, or should be followed to a T. Same goes with reforge calculators on a brand new class where information can still be gleaned. The better players analyze logs, go off firsthand experience, talk to their healers, see dmg output vs dmg taken, etc etc etc.

    Agi > insert any stat here as priorities. I realize that +320 secondary stats are nice. Hell, I even bought into them initially. Then I decided to test some theories out and made the switch to agi hybrid gems. On same fights, with roughly the same gear (1 piece upgraded) the damage output went up by 2-5k dps on Gara'jal and we were missing Warrior Banners. I then checked damage taken, absorbed etc and took considerably less damage than before.

    The numbers are there if people look at them.

    With my current gemming I gain 960 agility from hybrids and pure agility gems, not including my meta. I am currently keeping all socket bonuses, even though I have one I can easily live without, possibly two. 960 agility is just over a 5k base increase in Guard alone. It is roughly a 1.5k base increase in healing from Expel Harm. Now add in it's value to crit, dodge, AP, etc.

    I can tell you from experience running the same comp as we have for the previous weeks, the healers have all said I am a breeze to heal, and my dmg output has gone up immensely to beat those enrage timers. It also helps because I am now more viable to switch to dps if needed because I am basically optimized for WW as a BM. It is a win/win all the way around.

    Try it yourself, see the results.

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  17. #17
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    Try it yourself, see the results.
    Still going to disagree with you but only on the fact I am currently geared and running similar content that the OP is probably experiencing (progressing towards 6/6 normal basically). At i472 reaching the hit/expertise caps and forging a little extra into haste are about all my gear can handle, for this level of play the guides and reforge sites are spot on.

    I would not advise OP take your advice but at the same time I'm not claiming your wrong either. Heroic is another discussion and I assume Monk's pushing that content are smart enough to look beyond guides and into situation changes that benefit them the most. Actually almost all of the top 10 guilds on my server are running Monk tank's which really makes me smile.

    Right now though, all I want for Christmas is more Chi.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

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