We all saw it coming.

[Phurox]

It's more or less the only choice. It's very powerful in PVP, if only to keep Recuperate and Crippling rolling from forever away.

Aye I can see that. I was using Anticipation, but as muti spec it is pretty near damn impossible to get more than 5 combo points with our shitty energy regen :P

On wow-europe 50% of all rogues use Assasination in PvP atm, yet I hear most players talk about sub PvP in here.

Why choose sub over Assasination? I can see their abilities costs much less than Assasination, plus they have pretty good energy regen with SnD.

But backstab just annoys me. Being heind the target, just for getting the "You must be behind target", and then you can just spam Hemo.

Sub is only viable with dagger MH right?

[Sesshou]

guess i have to use the other 2 shitty lvl 90 talents then good job blizzard i could also just unlearn the lvl 90 talent ...

You saying this for pvp? Last I checked it was pretty much the consensus that ST was not better than mutilate in practice (though it was fairly close). If you were saying that from a pvp stand point, I'd say the double damage at 10+ yards would make up for it.

[Deleted]

I don't know anyone in their right mind that actually used st as a combo point builder for assa, it was only viable for sub and even then it was at most on pair with backstab.
This obviously for a pve standpoint, i don't know why anyone would have used st as their cp builder for assa even in pvp when in melee range (our damage isn't the highest and doing that you are negating the benefict of the blindside proc which is our only resemblance of "burst"), but to each their own i guess

[Geckoo]

I don't know anyone in their right mind that actually used st as a combo point builder for assa, it was only viable for sub and even then it was at most on pair with backstab.
This obviously for a pve standpoint, i don't know why anyone would have used st as their cp builder for assa even in pvp when in melee range (our damage isn't the highest and doing that you are negating the benefict of the blindside proc which is our only resemblance of "burst"), but to each their own i guess

Actually i made raid tests using ST and using Mut, with the same gear, and it turns out that i performed slightly better with ST in every single boss i tested. Anyway, ST in PvE nerfs it's self when you improve your gear, but with not so much gear and bad energy regen works just fine, better than mut, in pve.

[shadowboy]

The shurikan toss buff is a fairly bullshit one. Say hello to the new dead zone. Between 5 and 10 yards the rogue can't melee, and shurikan toss still does half of its potential damage. They should just double the damage baseline and have a 5 yard minimum range.

[Mercone]

These changes really do not surprise me. There was no way the devs were going to allow ST to be used in place of melee generators.

[Deleted]

The shurikan toss buff is a fairly bullshit one. Say hello to the new dead zone. Between 5 and 10 yards the rogue can't melee, and shurikan toss still does half of its potential damage. They should just double the damage baseline and have a 5 yard minimum range.

I seriously don't understand your reasoning, what they did was just double the damage from 10 yrds onward, the damage you do 5-10 is the same its now and melee you wouldn't have used it anyway.
I used it just to apply crippling from range, now it does double the current damage when i do it, so i consider this a buff

[shadowboy]

I seriously don't understand your reasoning, what they did was just double the damage from 10 yrds onward, the damage you do 5-10 is the same its now and melee you wouldn't have used it anyway.
I used it just to apply crippling from range, now it does double the current damage when i do it, so i consider this a buff

Because it's easy to counter. All someone has to do to counter the damage is kite you at a distance from 5 to 10 yards.

[Deleted]

Because it's easy to counter. All someone has to do to counter the damage is kite you at a distance from 5 to 10 yards.

That doesn't change the fact that it's still a buff, the 5-10 damage is the same the 10+ is better, i call this a buff.

And thinking that someone will care and pay attention about how far they are from the rogue attacking him, trying to stay in the 5-10 yards, is something i don't really think will actually ever happen

[Ryme]

Am I reading this wrong? Is this an assassination only nerf? It was already pretty debatable that it was any good in that spec, it's subtlety where it shines. All this does is buff the ability for me.

[kilj]

It's more or less the only choice. It's very powerful in PVP, if only to keep Recuperate and Crippling rolling from forever away.

It is most certainly not the only choice.... Having versatility is so huge for pvp...

[Deleted]

It is most certainly not the only choice.... Having versatility is so huge for pvp...

That's why no one in serious PVP is using it?

[Evolixe]

These changes really do not surprise me. There was no way the devs were going to allow ST to be used in place of melee generators.

Not sure what you are on about.. nothing has been changed from the fact that it does 200% damage at range.. so how does this make it ANY worse than it was at all?

[Deleted]

Definately going to try sub with shuri and deadly, should be great!

[Viradiance]

Not sure what you are on about.. nothing has been changed from the fact that it does 200% damage at range.. so how does this make it ANY worse than it was at all?

Much of the power for Mutilate came from Seal Fate, which Shruiken Toss will no longer proc. Shuriken Toss was able to grant an extra combo point on a crit.

[Deleted]

Much of the power for Mutilate came from Seal Fate, which Shruiken Toss will no longer proc. Shuriken Toss was able to grant an extra combo point on a crit.

I think the better question is: is it supposed to be in the rogue gameplay to have shuriken toss as a better alternative to mutilate or Sinister strike or backstab/hemo?
I think the answer to that is: no, what rogues need is not extra damage on ST, they don't need the sealfate procs on it. What rogues need is a way to get on taget, so they don't have to use ST.

[Deleted]

You know, boosting mutilate physical damage or slighty reduce the energy cost would have been a better solution...

[Lunesta]

not my ninja stars.. i love my ninja stars

[Verain]

Because it's easy to counter. All someone has to do to counter the damage is kite you at a distance from 5 to 10 yards.

Could you please pick one of the actual issues with the rogue class to whine about?

No one is interested in "countering" shuriken throw. You're seriously telling me that, say, a mage or a ret or someone, is gonna 6-9 kite us instead of running to 25-40 yards? Boy, I hope they do. It doesn't take much at all for a 9 yard target to get to within 5 yards, and when their kite breaks, then I'm on them faster. Besides the only players with 5-8 kiting experience are pretty much other rogues, and we got a LOT out of it back in the day.

This means that shuriken throw is about the same as today, but it does a bit more damage (only a bit, because the poison part isn't doubled) at range with a successfully kiting opponent. That's a straight up buff, and you're worrying that 8 yards in the new 38 yards, gimme a break.

not my ninja stars.. i love my ninja stars

I hope all rogues love ST, but this is a fix to a possibly worrisome situation (spam ST over mutilate with certain mastery gearing) which would have rogue single target unintendedly high. This fix both addresses that scaling issue and makes ST much more threatening.

You know, boosting mutilate physical damage or slighty reduce the energy cost would have been a better solution...

Only if rogue pve dps is too low. GC has said without qualification that it is not too low. If muti is too low, then mutilate itself would be a good place to start buffs, for sure (and dispatch- you can't increase mutilate damage without increasing dispatch damage).

[Linneth]

There were too many Rogue changes on our latest PTR Build. We've reverted half of those changes and fired whoever made them. See you on 2005.