1. #1

    I need help - Fire mage - Logs available.

    Hello!

    So here's the deal. I rerolled mage for MoP not having any previous practice on playing a mage. I think I've grasped the class quite well, however, I feel like I'm not doing as well as I should. I'm currently playing fire which I'm quite satisfied with, but again, I feel i'm doing something wrong :/


    Logs:
    (My mage name is Fem)
    Up to Elegon logs:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8deom0u0q7rvdaza/

    Elegon logs:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rcqzpvoaxfvpwrh2/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7c2h7iwe3agfiaxm/

    So...

    1. I'm confused about the talents.

    *PoM or Scorch? I understand this is fight dependant, but lets focus on Elegon. I've tried both.

    *NT or LB? I've tried both, again, I don't know which one is "best"?

    *And last of all....Inovaction, RoP or IW. (For Elegon) I've tried ALL of them, and I find Inovaction hard to keep up and RoP is awfully annoying. IW I've had most sucess with keeping up, but there are many times where I'm not taking dmg (like the start of the fight) and not getting the buff :/

    (Am I doing something else wrong - my rotation, uptime of things maybe??)

    2. Any comment on my stats/gear is appreciated. I'm nearly revered with shado-pan - getting the crit trinket tomorrow - yay.

    Again, any help at all is appreciated.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Envyadams's Avatar
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    I use Scorch for our Elegon kills just cause its a nice fast cast to get those crits needed to proc heating up and get the adds down (5 grps for the first and 4 grps for the second)

    And i usually use LB just cause its what im used to but i can see the benefit of using NT for the amount of adds and with the no limit on number of dots allowed.

    And i use Evo for that fight and just time it when an add is casting (glyphed so it heals same time) it works for me.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord
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    NT over Living Bomb any day for Elegon You don't need to have it explode, it's more dps on the orbs which you need to have Pyromaniac on.
    Invocation VS RoP. I'm not sure which one is better I guess RoP will be when we get used to the fight mechanics since Invocation is abit more forgiving for movement.

    I'm running with scorch for the orbs as well but to be honest I'm not sure I'll need it anymore with the amount of gear everyone has gotten and our tanks/melee helping our slow ramp-up classes with orbs.

    Looking at your Combustion damage from your Attempt 6. on the first log (abit over 9mins) it's way lower than mine on a shorter attempt (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/dv1f5...=13282&e=13796)

    Try to line up trinket procs/windsong procs and get a Pyroblast! proc, pop Alter time and hope to the RNG gods your pyro crits. You will get an insane combustion in the opener (My dps usually spikes from 130-200k during the first Combustion without TW).

    You also ran with RoP instead of Invocation on that log and you had a sub 60% uptime on it compared to my 85% on Invocation buff (Can't always keep it up during orbs / Phase transition) that's very low to what you should have.

    Your nether tempest uptime was a bit on the low side aswell.

    Third point. You received 40 Pyroblast! procs but used Pyroblast 43 times any specific reason you hardcasted pyro three times even though you had decent rng?
    Last edited by Trixzy; 2012-10-24 at 05:45 AM.

  4. #4
    Thanks for the feedback.
    Follow up:

    @Envyadams
    I used Scorch, but then switched to try PoM, which last night worked out quite well. We have a tank on each side helping with the adds, so if I'm so unlucky not to have a proc, I just ask for help. And I used PoM as a back-up. I use it once in phase one and its up for phase two.

    @Trixzy
    I was wondering if my "low" DMG might be a case of me not utilizing combustion as I should.
    So you use (Trinkets proc's or Windsong --> Pyroblast! --> Alter time and pray for a good crit? )

    That makes sense...I normally use Alter time on the combustion to extend it, but I guess thats not the best way to use Alter time? Sometimes I do use Combustion after some real bad crit, probably purely out of me wanting to use Combustion now and not wait for a proper crit. Which is silly I realise. How many times should I be using Combustion tho? Start of the fight (phase one), then its up for phase two, but I'm honestly so busy pocketing pyro's that I can't time a proper Combustion so I usually save it for phase one again, should I try and use it during phase two maybe?

    And for the hardcast of Pyroblast, I don't recall exactly why I used it, but I have a feeling it was on the phase two with the adds, I must have tried to see how much dmg it did hardcast? I'm not entirely sure, something like that.

  5. #5
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Your DPS in the 9 min Try is not to bad. i consider 88k more than enough to down this encounter.

    Wirte youself a macro:

    /cast Presence of Mind
    /cast Alter Time
    /cast Pyroblast


    You start the fight with a 9+ second counter from you tank. Use Invocation prepod and cast Pyro! You will wait for you trinkets to proc. and when it alings a crit you force you Pyro and start hte macro, than you hit pyro button (if you get lucky another pyro) and than the macro again to early stop alter time. You will cast pyro again and another one with the alter time buff (again if you get lucky another one) You just casted 4-6 Pyroblast in 3-4 second.. Get a Ingnite tracker! I usually get ignites up to 100k at this point Hit combustion and whatch the DPS meter rise.

    I refresh invocation exactly when the add that spawns dies and i'll heal me up shortly after i has died. YOu get some pressure of the healer and autorefresh the invocation buff with 10 sek left but i think that ok and a good situation to do it.


    U will wan to use you next glypphed combustions right after the first orb phase an i aim for a 50+k ignite. Rinse and repeat. In the last burn phase i trie to aim for 150k ignites.

    120+k with this is no real problem. Sorch is not needed for this fight. You can easily kill 4 orbs in a row which leaves you team with 50% more dmg on the boss for each phase. YOu should aim to get him to 35-% fot the last phase. With 100% debuff he should be dead shortly after you Bloodlust/Heroism end with sufficient DPS.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femide View Post
    Thanks for the feedback.
    Follow up:

    @Envyadams
    I used Scorch, but then switched to try PoM, which last night worked out quite well. We have a tank on each side helping with the adds, so if I'm so unlucky not to have a proc, I just ask for help. And I used PoM as a back-up. I use it once in phase one and its up for phase two.

    @Trixzy
    I was wondering if my "low" DMG might be a case of me not utilizing combustion as I should.
    So you use (Trinkets proc's or Windsong --> Pyroblast! --> Alter time and pray for a good crit? )

    That makes sense...I normally use Alter time on the combustion to extend it, but I guess thats not the best way to use Alter time? Sometimes I do use Combustion after some real bad crit, probably purely out of me wanting to use Combustion now and not wait for a proper crit. Which is silly I realise. How many times should I be using Combustion tho? Start of the fight (phase one), then its up for phase two, but I'm honestly so busy pocketing pyro's that I can't time a proper Combustion so I usually save it for phase one again, should I try and use it during phase two maybe?

    And for the hardcast of Pyroblast, I don't recall exactly why I used it, but I have a feeling it was on the phase two with the adds, I must have tried to see how much dmg it did hardcast? I'm not entirely sure, something like that.

    Well for starters, yes. I track all my trinket / windsong procs. (They proc during the first 20seconds of the fight always). When they're all up I fish for a Pyroblast, If I get one I alter time. Pop the pyroblast hope for a crit and pop inferno blast for another pyro. After 6 seconds the Alter time ends and I can Pyroblast again. Then I usually Combust and during this time you had insane amounts of spellpower (If you have decent trinkets) and get godly Combustions.

    Your alter time usage is probably something you should work on. Alter Time does not extend the duration of your Combustion. It Extends durations of buffs and debuffs on YOU not your target. Which means, Trinket Procs / TW / Wep Procs/ Prepot everything. It does NOT extend your Combustion on the boss.

    Usually I have prepot, both my trinkets, invocation and atleast one of the Windsong procs up when I get a crit with Pyroblast and Combust the boss which leads to big Combustions at the opener.
    Second time you will have Combustion up is around the time you're dealing with Orbs. If you have decent dps (or help) on the orb try as much as you can to save Pyroblast! proc to pop on the boss and Combust him during the burning of Orbs. Next time you have Combustion up is after the adds are dead and you're in P1 again, rinse and repeat.

    As Mûe said it's a good idea to have PoM macroed to alter time if you're spec'd into it since PoM -> Alter Time -> Use PoM -> Alter Time ends and you gain another PoM buff which you can use.


    EDIT;
    Check out Windry's MoP Fire Mage Guide;
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ire-Mage-Guide

    It has good tips how to use Combustion and overall it's a nice guide to read trough and will probably improve your dps.

    GL in your future raids = )
    Last edited by Trixzy; 2012-10-24 at 10:42 AM.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the feedback guys. I will definitely check the guide out and thanks for the macro. I think it all makes more sense now, Alter time had me confused a bit there, I get it now.

    Will see if I've improved if we raid tonight - *excited*

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    You start the fight with a 9+ second counter from you tank. Use Invocation prepod and cast Pyro! You will wait for you trinkets to proc. and when it alings a crit you force you Pyro and start hte macro, than you hit pyro button (if you get lucky another pyro) and than the macro again to early stop alter time. You will cast pyro again and another one with the alter time buff (again if you get lucky another one) You just casted 4-6 Pyroblast in 3-4 second.. Get a Ingnite tracker! I usually get ignites up to 100k at this point Hit combustion and whatch the DPS meter rise..
    I switched to PoM on some fights after reading about this "trick" here on MMOChamp. I always get the 4 pyros in a row, obviously, and sometimes 5-6. However I can´t for the life of me get my ignite that high. I never seem to get much more than +20k something, rarely above 30k. Often it jumps to about +20k after the first 2 pyros and fall down under 20k after the last 2. I have no idea what I´m doing wrong.

    Actually my biggest ignites often come when Combustion is on CD and only as a result of a singe pyro. Which I really don´t get, as logic would dictate that 4-6 should yield bigger ignites.

    First I thought it was an ignite tracker addon problem and switched from Combustion to the newly updated MyBigIgnite. . But that did not change anything.

    I´m at a loss.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Jimm3's Avatar
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    you are too slow on the pyros and ingnite falls off maybe?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimm3 View Post
    you are too slow on the pyros and ingnite falls off maybe?
    Hmm, maybe. That would explain it. But I really don´t think so. I´ll try do some tests on a targetdummy.

  11. #11
    New logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8e6uohzpcb8j9iu5/

    Old logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8deom0u0q7rvdaza/

    My DMG was a lot better this week around, I'm not sure if it was due to my combustions being a lot better or the fact that I got two new trinkets since last week. Either way I've improved, so the advice must have helped - My combustions seemed to be much better, I still had to get used to doing them differently than what I previously had, but I think they were better, I've looked at logs and compared them, but not sure, the difference in combustion dosnt seem that large? Or am I looking wrong?

    Quick Question for combustion: Should I keep Pyro'ing when they proc, after PoM/Alter time, or stop at a good crit and use combust? Sometimes I could chain more than 4 pyro's together.

  12. #12
    You definitely addressed the two biggest flaws i saw in the elegon logs in the OP. That was weak combustions and low uptime on your mage bomb.

    If you don't have a combustion addon get MyBigIgnite(it been updated, yay) or combustion Helper. As for your question you should keep pyro'ing in hopes to get a bigger ignite but sometimes it won't happen, and that nice ignite you once had will be gone . I think it's best to use your own judgement on when to pull the trigger.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord
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    @Femide:
    If you can chain pyros, do it. It will just increase your Ignite and get your Combustion damage higher, if it takes you more than 3sec to get the next Pyroblast out just pop the Combustion on a decent crit.

    And yes as Dezx said, you had way better management with Living Bomb, Combustion AND Rune of Power. You had way more uptime on them. Keep it up =)!

    @Silentbob78:
    Are you sure you're not looking at the Combustion damage? A normal Pyroblast! crit should give you 20+k ignites without any issues. Combustion ticks wont be 20k with 20k ignites though.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixzy;18871373@Silentbob78:
    Are you sure you're not looking at the Combustion damage? A normal Pyroblast! crit [U
    should [/U]give you 20+k ignites without any issues. Combustion ticks wont be 20k with 20k ignites though.
    The ignite damage I´m describing, is the number from either Combustion or MyBigInite. MyBigIgnite I thought was showing our current Ignite tick, but it may be that it is showing a predicted Combustion damage?

    I tried on a target dummy casting my 4-6 pyros as fast as possible. It varied from 11k to 24k (Number from MyBigIgnite).

    On one attempt yesterday on LFR I got it to about 37k. The only thing different about that one, was that I was standing really close to the boss. Compared to normally about 25-40 yards.

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