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  1. #1

    Breath of Fire and Shuffle

    I was just thinking, wouldn't it be great if Breath of Fire caused Shuffle if hitting more than 3 targets or something along those lines? Just feel like they should do something with this ability because it is damn near worthless at max level with the amount of Chi we currently generate.

  2. #2
    i think breath of fire gives shuffle on 5.1

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Pretty sure it'd have to replace the glyph, as having BoF cause Shuffle AND incap everything would be pretty damn powerful
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  4. #4
    Personally I'd like to see BoF have a bit more love in terms of active mitigation and giving it shuffle would be an okay way to go at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slahaldin View Post
    i think breath of fire gives shuffle on 5.1
    No it does not, that was just in the "What would you have the 5.1 patch notes be" thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Pretty sure it'd have to replace the glyph, as having BoF cause Shuffle AND incap everything would be pretty damn powerful
    Not really, you'd waste half the shuffle by the time they're out of incap, or you'd just continue hitting them and break incap that way.

  5. #5
    Make a free BoF a proc from BoK occasionally, like a warrior's ultimatum and I'd be happy.

    Also, make Guard cooldown 20 secs. That would totally make my day.

  6. #6
    They should make the glyph work like this:

    Glyph of Breath of Fire - When you use Breath of Fire on targets afflicted with your Dizzying Haze, you gain Shuffle for 6 sec. If no targets are afflicted with Dizzying Haze, they instead become Disoriented for 3 sec.
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  7. #7
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisoh View Post
    Make a free BoF a proc from BoK occasionally, like a warrior's ultimatum and I'd be happy.
    ooooh that would be a pretty cool idea, I do like having fun procs, and there's nothing more fun than breathing fire on people!
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  8. #8
    I dunno, I kind of like the idea of trading survivability for more damage. Makes it more of a choice. If these adds need to go down NOW and the damage intake isn't too extreme, then use more Breath of Fire: otherwise, keep shuffle up with BoK. Just making BoF proc Shuffle seems boring and the lazy way to go about things.

    Maybe change the glyph? Unglyped, deals damage: glyphed, procs Shuffle but deals 20% less damage. Something like that. I'm not sure how much people like the current glyph though, since I haven't tried it myself yet. :P

    Definitely don't want a BoF proc from BoK though. Those things screw up rotations, though I suppose the wiggle room is there. Just use Tiger Palm less.

    But no, in general I like the idea of choosing between extra damage or more survivability. Current BoF works fine for me IMO.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Personally I'd like to see BoF have a bit more love in terms of active mitigation and giving it shuffle would be an okay way to go at it.



    No it does not, that was just in the "What would you have the 5.1 patch notes be" thread.



    Not really, you'd waste half the shuffle by the time they're out of incap, or you'd just continue hitting them and break incap that way.
    talking about being able to spam incaps on a group leading to mass ability and spell interruptions while at the same time not totally gimping your shuffle stacks
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  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    I dunno, I kind of like the idea of trading survivability for more damage. Makes it more of a choice. If these adds need to go down NOW and the damage intake isn't too extreme, then use more Breath of Fire: otherwise, keep shuffle up with BoK. Just making BoF proc Shuffle seems boring and the lazy way to go about things.

    Maybe change the glyph? Unglyped, deals damage: glyphed, procs Shuffle but deals 20% less damage. Something like that. I'm not sure how much people like the current glyph though, since I haven't tried it myself yet. :P

    Definitely don't want a BoF proc from BoK though. Those things screw up rotations, though I suppose the wiggle room is there. Just use Tiger Palm less.

    But no, in general I like the idea of choosing between extra damage or more survivability. Current BoF works fine for me IMO.
    BoF can add to shuffle, but it should only add 3 seconds to the duration which would not make it useful for keeping shuffle up with just BoF when trying to prioritize other cooldowns such as, guard and chi sphere, it would however let you AoE spam certain pulls and keep it up which would still reduce your survivability in those situations by restricting the shuffle duration.
    Last edited by Unholyground; 2012-10-23 at 02:33 PM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    talking about being able to spam incaps on a group leading to mass ability and spell interruptions while at the same time not totally gimping your shuffle stacks
    You need a minimum of 2 GCD's in order for BoF to take effect, and that can only happen once every 8 seconds. If the GCD is 1.5 seconds, that means you need to wait 1.5 - 3 seconds in order to hit your target. That's roughly the same amount of time the incap lasts, so you will only have it up half the time. And if they hit hard, that leaves you one PB every 20 seconds, which, depending, may or may not be an issue. It also leaves you without a Guard unless you forgo PB for 40 seconds. And because your auto-attacks are suffering since that would cause your target to break CC, your EB uptime suffers as well.

    This really isn't THAT overpowered.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2012-10-23 at 02:16 PM.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    You need a minimum of 2 GCD's in order for BoF to take effect, and that can only happen once every 8 seconds. If the GCD is 1.5 seconds, that means you need to wait 1.5 - 3 seconds in order to hit your target. That's roughly the same amount of time the incap lasts, so you will only have it up half the time. And if they hit hard, that leaves you one PB every 20 seconds, which, depending, may or may not be an issue. It also leaves you without a Guard unless you forgo PB for 40 seconds. And because your auto-attacks are suffering since that would cause your target to break CC, your EB uptime suffers as well.

    This really isn't THAT overpowered.
    Not quite sure what youre getting at, because the GCD is 1sec and BoF has exactly the same conditions as BoK (no cooldown, costs 2 Chi). You can also continue hitting one target to keep your Chi/EB stacks going; one mob in a group pull isnt dangerous.

    Using BoF doesnt suddenly mean you cant PB or Guard, because youre essentially just replacing times youd BoK with BoFs.

    Let me rephrase: Imagine if now, on live, there was a glyph that said "causes your Blackout Kick to also incapacitate everything in a cone in front of you". With BoF causing Shuffle, and glyphed, it would be exactly the same situation. You would just replace BoK entirely on any pulls with mobs susceptible to DH, because even if the incap only lasts a second before its broken, you have a NO COOLDOWN, ON DEMAND AoE interrupt that also snags uninterruptible abilities. The only thing stopping people from doing this now is the fact they dont have the Chi to do it without having very poor Shuffle uptime
    Last edited by Nikkaszal; 2012-10-23 at 08:26 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Not quite sure what youre getting at, because the GCD is 1sec and BoF has exactly the same conditions as BoK (no cooldown, costs 2 Chi). You can also continue hitting one target to keep your Chi/EB stacks going; one mob in a group pull isnt dangerous.

    Using BoF doesnt suddenly mean you cant PB or Guard, because youre essentially just replacing times youd BoK with BoFs.

    Let me rephrase: Imagine if now, on live, there was a glyph that said "causes your Blackout Kick to also incapacitate everything in a cone in front of you". With BoF causing Shuffle, and glyphed, it would be exactly the same situation. You would just replace BoK entirely on any pulls with mobs susceptible to DH, because even if the incap only lasts a second before its broken, you have a NO COOLDOWN, ON DEMAND AoE interrupt that also snags uninterruptible abilities. The only thing stopping people from doing this now is the fact they dont have the Chi to do it without having very poor Shuffle uptime
    So it is, I was under a strange impression. Still, my point remains that you are seriously overestimating the usefulness of this. This will not decrease damage taken very much and if you're in a good enough group for, say, a challenge mode, any trash that's casting a spell should be interrupted anyway, and if it's mass trash (not like several pulls, just a pull of lots of adds), anything they cast wouldn't hurt that much anyway.

  14. #14
    Every tank has the ability to trade survivability for damage. Breath of Fire is the monk's way of doing this.

    Make BoF into survivability, then you have to nerf it's damage, and then institute a different way to trade survivability for damage.

    Is BoF failing to do its job?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntler View Post
    Every tank has the ability to trade survivability for damage. Breath of Fire is the monk's way of doing this.

    Make BoF into survivability, then you have to nerf it's damage, and then institute a different way to trade survivability for damage.

    Is BoF failing to do its job?
    Yeah, because no monk in their right minds would trade survivability for damage.

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Yeah, because no monk in their right minds would trade survivability for damage.
    Offtanking monks, fights where beating the enrage timer matters more then max survivability, ect.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Offtanking monks, fights where beating the enrage timer matters more then max survivability, ect.
    Offtanking monks should be using BoK to stack as much Shuffle uptime as possible and the difference between BoK and BoF on single target fights is negligible.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2012-10-24 at 07:35 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntler View Post
    Every tank has the ability to trade survivability for damage. Breath of Fire is the monk's way of doing this.

    Make BoF into survivability, then you have to nerf it's damage, and then institute a different way to trade survivability for damage.

    Is BoF failing to do its job?

    I was under the impression that BoK is a single-target attack while BoF is a multi-target attack, and that only one of them actually gave survivability. To me, the "survivability vs damage" trade comes from simply being a leather active mitigation tank. I mean, the "damage" from BoF is pretty shitty even though it is a DoT with haze.

    I'm all into adding shuffle timer(even if less than BoK shuffle) if you hit >3 targets or something like that

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntler View Post
    Every tank has the ability to trade survivability for damage. Breath of Fire is the monk's way of doing this.

    Make BoF into survivability, then you have to nerf it's damage, and then institute a different way to trade survivability for damage.

    Is BoF failing to do its job?
    Not at all true, all the other classes have way more passive mitigation that requires no input. I think we all agree that we love the uniqueness of how the monk mitigation works however and I believe adding 3 seconds to shuffle when BoF is used is not a game breaker nor changes how we play, it just makes it slightly more forgiving.
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  20. #20
    BoF should work like RJW, provide shuffle and have a CD and RJW should just be damage like BoF is now.

    Talents should be options that are either difficult to make or vary dependent on the scenario. As it stands now, with RJW providing shuffle that feels mandatory and not interesting. BoF is fun and we already have it, we just barely ever get to use it. So, if RJW was turned into just a dps ability and made to hit harder with a longer CD, then the 90 tier would have a burst damage option (RJW), a longer damage option (Xuen), and a movement/AoE damage option. We put the choice back in the 90 tree and give us the ability we all love, BoF.

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