Pyroblast change won't affect pve?

[Deleted]

After reading that from a blue post I was shocked, because I cannot disagree more and I don't understand the logical reason behind this.

I've tested myself in both raid bosses (garajal normal) and in the city with some timers and so to not cast pyroblast in less than 3sec, to simulate the cd, and I've around 15-20% less dps which confirm what was obvious for me at first. Maybe now fire mages should ignore crit and go full haste, otherwise I don't understand anything

ps: pvp always fucking around

[mrgreenthump]

I really dont get how you can loose 15-20% dps if its working as intended, sure we will loose dps, but its only those 2 times that we could altertime stack hotstreaked pyros for combustion.. and combustion does not do 40% of our dps last time i checked

[Jimm3]

you cannot fully simulate it right now on live cause combustion will only count ignite on 5.1 and not pyro dot and with the levels of haste at the time it should be less than 3 sec...

we ll have to see how it goes in PTR at the moment

[Deleted]

Like Jimm3 said, Combustion is getting changed as well and should counteract this Pyro nerf, at least DPS wise...

[Deleted]

I really dont get how you can loose 15-20% dps if its working as intended, sure we will loose dps, but its only those 2 times that we could altertime stack hotstreaked pyros for combustion.. and combustion does not do 40% of our dps last time i checked

Right now with 28% crit I have (50% more due to debuff from mage bombs on target) I usually get a lot of several pyros in a row (without alter time). Besides that, with alter time + pom I can have combustions with ticks around 40-50k, without that I got 10-15k.

I didn't think about the combustion "buff". I hope that help to maintain dps the same at least

[Redcinder]

This cannot be tested or simulated on the live realms at the moment. They haven't made the combustion change yet and this is where your apparent 20% DPS loss will come back from. I feel the change is a good one. Yes we cant string pyroblasts together but now we wont have to get like 2 or 3 pyro crits in a row for that PERFECT combustion. Rather just the 1

[Deleted]

Tbh in order to get the perfect combustion you should still do the same, and after 5.1 it would be even more important considering combustion benefits from ignite twice as much as now. You simply won't be able to do it anymore, and this is sad. It's sad even because of the fun factor, it'd be like "no sorry you can't spam 2 icelances in a row". I mean WTF. They couldnt simply make it so you can't cast pyro with PoM, that was too hard.

I so hope they revert this change... stupid pvp.

[Redcinder]

Tbh in order to get the perfect combustion you should still do the same, and after 5.1 it would be even more important considering combustion benefits from ignite twice as much as now. You simply won't be able to do it anymore, and this is sad. It's sad even because of the fun factor, it'd be like "no sorry you can't spam 2 icelances in a row". I mean WTF. They couldnt simply make it so you can't cast pyro with PoM, that was too hard.

I so hope they revert this change... stupid pvp.

With pyro having this 3 second cooldown its impossible to string 3 crits into the same ignite. Its nearly impossible to string 2. The best ignite we can hope for now is a Fireball Crit, Inferno Blast Crit and then the Pyroblast Crit all stacking into the same ignite for the big Combustion.

[mrgreenthump]

Right now with 28% crit I have (50% more due to debuff from mage bombs on target) I usually get a lot of several pyros in a row (without alter time). Besides that, with alter time + pom I can have combustions with ticks around 40-50k, without that I got 10-15k.

I didn't think about the combustion "buff". I hope that help to maintain dps the same at least

Yer its gonna need some getting used to I bet, but you should never ever eat up your own hotstreak with this system as the cd is allways 2 GCD, so only thing you really loose in the equation is pom pyro, and your combustion will be lower damage, but still it should never account to 15-20% dps loss as currently combustion does like 10-15% of your total damage even if thats cut to half it should only drop your dps by 5-7.5% not 15-20%

[Janir]

Dps loss it is but a huge? I don't think so. You can see the differnece only when ur trying to get combustion with Alter Time or if lucky at start burst.

[Alvito]

The ticks for combustion may not change, but we will lose out on dmg on the move and have a clunkier rotation then we did. Blizz can toss out all the numbers they want but limiting the times we can actually use our hot streak proc will mean more and more fall off without being used by good and poor players across the board. This is a result of them giving all mages shatter and deep freeze. If they just removed one or both this wouldnt be needed.

---------- Post added 2012-10-24 at 05:15 AM ----------

This will change how we approach fights also. Now a fire mage can quickly nuke down several adds in the totem spirit realm now with hard casts of fireball being mixed into a time sensitive setting, mages will be much worse in there nuking them down. I am sure it will hit a few other fights, this was just the one I thought of when I saw the proposed changes.

[mipper]

I think one of the unintended (or maybe intended) consequences of adding this cooldown to pyro will mean we have a little less mobility since we'll be able to use fewer hot streak procs and insta pyros. May not be noticeable with only 3 sec..

[mrgreenthump]

I think one of the unintended (or maybe intended) consequences of adding this cooldown to pyro will mean we have a little less mobility since we'll be able to use fewer hot streak procs and insta pyros. May not be noticeable with only 3 sec..

nope, we still wont be using fewer hot streaks as every you proc as normal rotation will be usable, nothing really should change, exept when you hardcast a pyroblast

[mipper]

nope, we still wont be using fewer hot streaks as every you proc as normal rotation will be usable, nothing really should change, exept when you hardcast a pyroblast

Even when you have instant pyro buff and heating up proc at the same time with inferno blast available?

[mrgreenthump]

Well if you have pyro and heating up on, you havent used hotstreak in the previous 2 GCD's. Unless you use alter time or hard cast pyro or dont use hotstreak for some time.. The thing we got to get used to use hotstreak every single time its up(after next cast or right after an IB). Else we are going to run to problems with next hotstreak eating the previous 1 up.

[Menphis]

Well if you have pyro and heating up on, you havent used hotstreak in the previous 2 GCD's. Unless you use alter time or hard cast pyro or dont use hotstreak for some time.. The thing we got to get used to use hotstreak every single time its up(after next cast or right after an IB). Else we are going to run to problems with next hotstreak eating the previous 1 up.

Are you aware that fire mages intentionally save up a hotstreak and heating up?

Using a hotstreak every time its up is not really recommendable IMO, when you're going for that huge ignite for combustion.
Don't under estimate chain pyroblasts criting leading to a huge ignite, which leads to a huge combustion.

I'm suspecting it "will" be a huge dps loss.


Also, its not just about combustion.
When I look at Recount and look at how much damage each of my spells did, Ignite (DoT) is in the top 3 spells.
So even when combustion is on CD, ignite still does lots of damage.
Thus even if the change to combustion in 5.1 compensates for the Pyro CD nerf (for Combustion), it still is a nerf to ignite, leading to a dps loss IMO.

[spaace]

Once again, PVP fucks shit up for pve again!

Who's stupid idea was it to make shatter all specs? Someone forgot about PVP. Just disable shatter unless you're frost for PVP and problem solved.



Also... just because you cast 10 pyroblast back to back to back, doesn't mean your ignite will be high.

[Menphis]

Also... just because you cast 10 pyroblast back to back to back, doesn't mean your ignite will be high.

You'll need the Pyroblasts to crit, obviously... =.=


But adding a 3sec CD would completely remove that possibility of getting a huge ignite by critting back to back Pyroblasts.

[mrgreenthump]

Are you aware that fire mages intentionally save up a hotstreak and heating up?

Using a hotstreak every time its up is not really recommendable IMO, when you're going for that huge ignite for combustion.
Don't under estimate chain pyroblasts criting leading to a huge ignite, which leads to a huge combustion.

You are aware that I did mention that it might affect your combustion damage, but anything else it just should not affect unless you use PoM or alter time.. Futhermore saving up hotstreak + heating up is only recomended when you are abt to combustion or need to burst big with 2-3 spells

[Janir]

They should just remove deep freeze from Fire and its fine for PvP. Got no idea why it even is in every spec nowdays..