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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Most likely just miss communication not a big deal either way, I tell you what go into the trash in MV with a Raid DPS spec that means ES since that is the normal Raid spec. Try to top meters on any of the trash packs. Sha is misleading because those people below you could have been mind controlled and if they were you didn't get their true DPS. Maybe you never got MC'd but that doesn't prove they didn't. I find it hard to believe that if everyone is capped @ 90 in equal gear that you can out DPS any class in an AE fashion.

    So yes we do have AE issues, Our AE is very very limited and tied to our single target ability no other class gets this same treatment.
    First off, to the last statement there, Shammies do, to an extent, in that they only get one fire totem active at once - Magma or Searing; Enhance gets shafted on that even more, since they have to ST up to Maelstrom5 to Chain Lightning and have to use a ST ability to spread Flame Shock. Fury AoE, from what I've seen in half-assedly leveling mine, is, too, in that they have to WW to ramp up RB's cleave potential.

    Now, with the changes to the talent system, talents can be shuffled almost constantly; Holy Prism, self-targeted, is perfectly adequate for trash and otherwise consistent AoE need. For bosses (in LFR; I typically don't have the opportunity to swap in 5-mans), I do change to ES for most fights. I will give you potential gear disparity, but in LFR and 5-mans, I've been soundly out-DPSed once, I believe, by a mage, across both heavy AoE and single-target; other than that, I've only seen steady competition as with that monk, a Blood DK and an Ele Sham in 5-mans, and a fellow Ret in LFR.

    I will also give you that my experience is not in true prime content; hoping to rectify that as soon as possible. But I refuse to believe that we are as gimped as you seem to be suggesting in the face of what I have personally seen thus far. I was actually tanking an heroic the other day and got a Ret, a Fury, and a Fire Mage for DPS; every single pull, the Ret was top - AoE, ST. And he was comparably geared to the mage; warrior was fresh 90, I think. Could just be a case of a bad mage, sure, but I would rather choose to believe in the potential of the Retribution spec in the hands of a capable, and competent player than think that all the DPS I've seen in LFR and heroics is just that bad.

    ...Though I will admit, that is just as feasible.

    EDIT: Want to go ahead and apologize for anything in that last paragraph that someone might take offense to; it was not my intention in any way to potentially insinuate that anyone here is bad. Was in a rush as class was ending and wanted to go ahead and get that post up before I left.
    Last edited by Grognard; 2012-10-26 at 02:15 AM.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Retribution DPS at the moment seriously sucks.
    Wait, what? I thought we were in a pretty good spot. Just because we're not OP (or the "best") doesn't mean "[we] seriousl suck"...

  3. #63
    Brewmaster Playintrafic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Retribution DPS at the moment seriously sucks.

    {◕ ◡ ◕}
    Whut? Im undergeared and I still pull like 40k in LFD and 100k+ aoe.

    That said, I want consecrate back. I want small buffs to TV and CS. maybe a way to spread censure.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Juicy View Post
    Remove target requirement from HotR.
    Or at least facing requirements.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    This. Templar's Verdict gets much stronger with 2pc.

    4pc changes the spec entirely.

    RET IS FINE. God...people will never understand.
    Your logic is the same the devs seem to use at times and it's poorly thought out. You should not need tier bonuses to make classes good. I can assure you the pvp bonus does not even touch the pve tier bonuses. So what about the people that pvp too? They have shit sustained and similar burst to any other choice in pvp but are viable in pve because of a band-aid tier bonus.

    You could just as easily bake in the 4pc dmg bost to our sustained which helps in both pve and pvp. Meanwhile if you want to continue to address issues with band-aids, you could increase AE dmg with tier bonuses.

    Anyway, I'll see you in t16 wearing t14 elite gear because the bonus is all our dmg. Nice foresight man.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    Or at least facing requirements.
    I'd like this. But it really shouldn't require a target imo, just make it require a hit to generate holy power.

    *edit* I too would like to see inquisitions duration increased to 45-60 seconds
    Last edited by Riptide; 2012-10-26 at 05:50 AM.

  6. #66
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Put inquisition as a passive or make it last 30 minutes. K thanks bai.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  7. #67
    The Patient Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
    Anyway, I'll see you in t16 wearing t14 elite gear because the bonus is all our dmg. Nice foresight man.
    Because that makes sense and I would totally do that.

    I was more addressing the original post in that he was saying Ret "seriously sucks"...because it doesn't.

  8. #68
    Ret Dmg doesnt Sucks , the sustain dmg need a little tuning up ( especialy for PVP )
    first u cant compare DPS meters in dungeons for 1 min boss fight , Retribution will top all classes
    the sha picture , showing the dmg is an AOE and seems most of them just dpsing the boss if they concentrate on adds , they could outdps you many times , we already know 1 clickable button classes can do much AOE dmg ,
    getting our dmg from Bonus Set is totaly wrong coz we get the sets for Bonus Dmg , not everyone here are so lucky to get 4 sets quickly and im one of them ( loot System hates me )
    Inquisition for 30 s is Ok , make it last longer ( perfect ) more Tv , more Dmg

  9. #69
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    First off, to the last statement there, Shammies do, to an extent, in that they only get one fire totem active at once - Magma or Searing; Enhance gets shafted on that even more, since they have to ST up to Maelstrom5 to Chain Lightning and have to use a ST ability to spread Flame Shock. Fury AoE, from what I've seen in half-assedly leveling mine, is, too, in that they have to WW to ramp up RB's cleave potential.

    Now, with the changes to the talent system, talents can be shuffled almost constantly; Holy Prism, self-targeted, is perfectly adequate for trash and otherwise consistent AoE need. For bosses (in LFR; I typically don't have the opportunity to swap in 5-mans), I do change to ES for most fights. I will give you potential gear disparity, but in LFR and 5-mans, I've been soundly out-DPSed once, I believe, by a mage, across both heavy AoE and single-target; other than that, I've only seen steady competition as with that monk, a Blood DK and an Ele Sham in 5-mans, and a fellow Ret in LFR.

    I will also give you that my experience is not in true prime content; hoping to rectify that as soon as possible. But I refuse to believe that we are as gimped as you seem to be suggesting in the face of what I have personally seen thus far. I was actually tanking an heroic the other day and got a Ret, a Fury, and a Fire Mage for DPS; every single pull, the Ret was top - AoE, ST. And he was comparably geared to the mage; warrior was fresh 90, I think. Could just be a case of a bad mage, sure, but I would rather choose to believe in the potential of the Retribution spec in the hands of a capable, and competent player than think that all the DPS I've seen in LFR and heroics is just that bad.

    ...Though I will admit, that is just as feasible.

    EDIT: Want to go ahead and apologize for anything in that last paragraph that someone might take offense to; it was not my intention in any way to potentially insinuate that anyone here is bad. Was in a rush as class was ending and wanted to go ahead and get that post up before I left.
    No offense taken, However I'm only talking about AE, 5 mans and LFR aren't relevant at all. In a raiding atmosphere Ret takes a pretty big step backwards to assist with AE. If there are above 4 adds we have to swap seals and move from TV to DS and from CS to hotr for optimal DPS. If there are only 2 adds we just swap from TV to DS sure but find another class that can't AE for shit in a raid. I have a Shaman they don't suffer as much as you make it sound in fact for trash I would rather be on my Shaman at least I can be useful.
    Last edited by Requital; 2012-10-26 at 07:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  10. #70
    MY changes to 5.1:

    -Divine Purpose would be baseline to all 3 specs (ups sustained).
    -Holy Avenger would no longer increase the damage of HP-generating abilities (lowers burst).
    -March of the Sentinel (DP replacement): Every 15 seconds, your abilities that generate Holy Power will deal 20% additional damage or healing and generate an additional Holy Power. This effect has a X (15-20) sec cooldown (Passive like DP).
    -Increase damage of Hammer of Wrath (increase Execute damage).
    -Lower damage of Guardian of Ancient Kings (lowers burst).

  11. #71
    I really thought Cata's system was perfect, even if the numbers weren't.

    Actually, I was extremely comfortable with cleaves being a part of melee's rotation which gave melee a very unique feel to it in a lot of fights (like saurfang).
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  12. #72
    Mechagnome Proxeneta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Retribution DPS at the moment seriously sucks.
    "Seriously sucks" I don't really think so, I'm always top 3 in raids, always number 1 in dungeons. Maybe if you could say what you're comparing it to? WOTLK ret? Well yeah that's a pretty big difference, but I don't really think we seriously suck, I think we're pretty average.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Proxeneta View Post
    "Seriously sucks" I don't really think so, I'm always top 3 in raids, always number 1 in dungeons. Maybe if you could say what you're comparing it to? WOTLK ret? Well yeah that's a pretty big difference, but I don't really think we seriously suck, I think we're pretty average.
    If you're top three, either the other dps suck or you don't have any of the top dps specs in your raid. Several specs can sneeze and do more damage than Ret. Our sustained isn't terrible, but there are several over-tuned specs that make us look like a joke.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    over-tuned specs
    This alone seems to debunk the claims that we're bad; if other classes are over-tuned, that actually means that we're fine and other will be nerfed and brought in line.
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  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    This alone seems to debunk the claims that we're bad; if other classes are over-tuned, that actually means that we're fine and other will be nerfed and brought in line.
    Lot of changes coming with the next patch, I see all melee attack speed abilities are changing to spell haste so maybe the days of haste and attack speed are over they weren't very useful anyway. I don't see these classes as far over-tuned as some would suggest and most aren't getting much if any nerfing at all.

    Ret is strong single target and mediocre AE if that is where they want us I can live with it but I don't prefer it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  16. #76
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Lot of changes coming with the next patch, I see all melee attack speed abilities are changing to spell haste so maybe the days of haste and attack speed are over they weren't very useful anyway. I don't see these classes as far over-tuned as some would suggest and most aren't getting much if any nerfing at all.

    Ret is strong single target and mediocre AE if that is where they want us I can live with it but I don't prefer it.
    Source? I would love some free SoB haste.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Source? I would love some free SoB haste.
    i'm not so keen to be back to being crippled by curse of enfeeblement.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Source? I would love some free SoB haste.
    Second post of MMO-C front page. Scroll over Time Warp, Heroism, or Bloodlust; it's changed wording from speed to haste. Which is weird, since even as a speed buff it benefited SoB, where the 10% aura doesn't and never has.
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  19. #79
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    Second post of MMO-C front page. Scroll over Time Warp, Heroism, or Bloodlust; it's changed wording from speed to haste. Which is weird, since even as a speed buff it benefited SoB, where the 10% aura doesn't and never has.
    I'm from the days when attack speed was windfury double attacks and those I liked, This new attack speed garbage I have never been a fan of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  20. #80
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    Second post of MMO-C front page. Scroll over Time Warp, Heroism, or Bloodlust; it's changed wording from speed to haste. Which is weird, since even as a speed buff it benefited SoB, where the 10% aura doesn't and never has.
    That info is useless

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