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  1. #81
    Not much to add other than observations.
    New to PVP. Feel so weak to begin with but hope 2 piece and more PVP power will make it better.
    Pve seems ok right now.
    Aoe little weak, minor buff to SOTR or give us Holy Wrath or Cons back. Gutted to lose both.
    Minor moments of downtime in rotation. Could use another filler - see above.
    HOW is a bit pathetic. I'd like to see crit chance increased so it becomes a real execute sub 20%.
    Inq has always been gay but learnt to live with it.
    WHEN I POST IN CAPS CURSE SPEAK FOR ALL PALADINS AND REFRAIN FROM PUNCTUATION EXCEPT AT THE END OF MY SENTENCE WHERE I USE EXTRA YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH MY LOGIC!!!!!!!

  2. #82
    Mechagnome Proxeneta's Avatar
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    There is one thing I'm very curious about... HoW is a finisher right, in the same way that execute is a finisher, and the warlock's ability (Can't remember name), how on earth do warriors and locks crit 150k+ easily, and HoW crits for what? 50k?

    Edit: Should probably mention that I'm talking about PvP. I can see that buffing HoW would give a huge damage increase for Sanctified Wrath in PVE, since it's generally the 3rd most damaging ability according to my recount on longer fights, so a solution could be giving it either a higher chance to crit/increasing crit damage, or simply buffing the damage only when the target is below 20% health.
    Last edited by Proxeneta; 2012-10-27 at 06:53 AM.

  3. #83
    This is my list of things I'd like changed for Rets:

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    This. Templar's Verdict gets much stronger with 2pc.

    4pc changes the spec entirely.

    RET IS FINE. God...people will never understand.
    Ret is a real bullshit class in PvP. In Cata I were to use 2p PvE (lfr -.-) and now this class again gets good via the PvE set. This is so stupid.

    Ret in PvP = Good kiter, good dmg dealer during CDs. At the rest, he sucks badly.

  5. #85
    yea the ret changes are pretty good. but i feel we got the short end on dps. we are a really good hybrid class thats for sure!

  6. #86
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    That info is useless
    It's not useless he said exactly what it was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  7. #87
    a people like you reopning the discussion about hybrid class , have a 0% KNOWledge , like they ignoring the fact hybrid classes or support classes No more Exist but Anyway some ppl will just pop up and say hybrid class again , maybe bring the player not the class didnt ring in ur head

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    a people like you reopning the discussion about hybrid class , have a 0% KNOWledge , like they ignoring the fact hybrid classes or support classes No more Exist but Anyway some ppl will just pop up and say hybrid class again , maybe bring the player not the class didnt ring in ur head
    This game has never been about bring the player not the class that is just RP bs they throw around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  9. #89
    even if this is true , we cant just ignore the fact that hybrid tax are over

  10. #90
    Ret is pretty decent toolwise in PvP, probably one of the better balanced specs in this nuthouse season.

    However Ret's passive damage is too low to offer any pressure outside of CDs, further exacerbating Retribution's real PvP problem: Weakness towards tunneling/overwhelming damage.

    When we face this.. overwhelming damage.. we are prensented two choices... Die - or - Stay Alive.

    However we end up using far more cooldowns than anyone else, including offensive ones, just to stay alive....
    Then we turn into a mana hog for our healer as we'll be tunneled forever and do no damage.

    Neither is good.


    By tradition, Blizz is happy with their nerf the strong before buffing everyone way, it seems to be the case with Hunters and Warriors in 5.1 so far.

    But... We need an extra defensive ability, undoubtedly.
    A level 90 Retribution spell, something like a 4.0.6 Sacred Shield (triggers at 35%, 30sec CD, can't be dispelled).

  11. #91
    Seal of truth spreading with hammer would be fantastic and make hammer useful at least once every 15 seconds instead of one boss fight a raid.

  12. #92
    Rets rotation feels slow. DKs have a 1 sec GCD, and warriors have both a 1 sec gcd proc, and things like heroic strike (which are done in addition to the normal rotation) to keep the rotation feeling busy and not too slow. While haste will make abilities available more often, you can still only press them once every 1.5 seconds.

    Rets just have a slow arse 1.5 sec gcd nothing special rotation.

    Please do something to make it a bit more interesting. It's quite frankly boring. They are also lacking in "medium cooldown" abilities. By this I mean things like dragon shout or death and decay. Stuff that you should weave into your normal rotation when they're up, but have a longer cd (30secs+). Heck even battle shout and horn of winter. Closest thing is lights hammer, but that's a talent and still, 1 min cd.

    Divine purpose should be part of the spec, not a talent. And it should proc off non "finishing" moves, and of course have its proc rate adjusted accordingly. Having something that makes you use a finisher proc off finishers just seems silly. It makes it feel spammy and really ruins an opportunity to make the spec more interesting.
    Last edited by Wazooty; 2012-10-29 at 03:35 AM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    Rets just have a slow arse 1.5 sec gcd nothing special rotation.
    Melee haste effects lower the cooldown and global cooldown of your Judgment, Crusader Strike, Hammer of the Righteous, Exorcism, and Hammer of Wrath.
    Do you even have any idea about MoP Ret?

  14. #94
    My changes:

    Divine Storm will return to healing based on damage, without a glyph.

    Seal of Righteousness will double in damage.

    Censure will actually do damage. I've switched off targets to let censure kill them during dailies, and censure just sorta tickles them instead of killing them off

    Definitely buff HoW. At the LEAST as an execute. It doesn't do it's job very well at all. I'm fairly sure it regularly hit harder at 85 than it does now. Move some of our obscene CD damage in it.

    Obligatory "Inquisition needs to die in a fire" post.

    That's about all I can think of myself. Maybe make our major glyphs NOT suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Basically WTB buffs for Ret as a Shockadin out dps'd four rets yesterday in LFR. It was cringeworthy.

    {◕ ◡ ◕}
    If you want to use crappy LFR players for a baseline, then I move that Ret DPS is FAR too high. As a 460 Ret Paladin, I did double the DPS as half the 'dps' and came in second over all in my sole Pandaria LFR so far. Obviously the class is totally broken For what it's worth, I also saw a DK outDPS'd by 4 of the healers. I wanted to cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Changes: Have blizzard slap the shit out of anyone who claims a spec is underpowered when in a week it's going to be the most broken OP dps spec in the tier.

    Buffs? You should be praying we don't get any nerfs in 5.1 our 4 set is so absurdly broken.

    I swear the bitching right now is annoying. It's like looking at T10 and saying RET SUCKS then you get 4set stormadin bonus n jar and go NVM op Swirlswirl you dead.
    Umm, not to be a Debbie Downer, but isn't that the epitome of piss poor design? I'm in no position to make a qualified statement about the state of our DPS, but if, as everyone is suggesting, we need our 4pTwhatevertierthisis to go from "sub-par" to "Absurdly Broken!", then there is a great deal of work the class needs. 4p should outperform not having a 4p, yes, but it shouldn't substantially change RELATIVE capabilities to everyone else, nor should it be a requirement for the class to "work".

    but in LFR and 5-mans, I've been soundly out-DPSed once
    Ok...and I've been out DPS'd by one person in LFR. That wasn't a point of pride for me, that just made want to fucking cry since I needed PvP gear to meet the 460 requirement EXACTLY. In 5 mans, I almost always out DPS everyone except tanks on trash pulls. That doesn't mean Paladins are in a good place, it's just that I understand how to play the game and understand how to play my class. Something 99% of the people you will meet in random heroics and LFR don't know. At all. Compare yourself to the worst players, and you're going to look pretty damn good. That's kind of a given. (Note: I'm not saying we are not in a good place, I hold no opinion at this time due to lack of experience).
    Last edited by Jonuts; 2012-10-29 at 04:24 AM.

  15. #95
    Ah, it lowers the GCD as well. Makes me feel stupid. However the rest still stands. It feels boring and slow.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    My changes:

    Divine Storm will return to healing based on damage, without a glyph.

    Seal of Righteousness will double in damage.

    Censure will actually do damage. I've switched off targets to let censure kill them during dailies, and censure just sorta tickles them instead of killing them off

    Definitely buff HoW. At the LEAST as an execute. It doesn't do it's job very well at all. I'm fairly sure it regularly hit harder at 85 than it does now. Move some of our obscene CD damage in it.

    That's about all I can think of myself. Maybe make our major glyphs NOT suck.
    are you high? Censure does a ton of damage.

    Also my hammers crit for over 250k regularly not counting the 30% mastery. Maybe you should get into level 90 gear.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 03:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    Ah, it lowers the GCD as well. Makes me feel stupid. However the rest still stands. It feels boring and slow.
    maybe you are slow. The spec certainly isn't
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-10-29 at 03:58 AM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Sythari View Post
    The changes I would like to see is CD's nerfed and sustained buffed, I like the way things work right now. Inquisition is just a QoL life thing, I don't mind it really.
    thumps up to much ups and downs on dps meter

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    are you high? Censure does a ton of damage.

    Also my hammers crit for over 250k regularly not counting the 30% mastery. Maybe you should get into level 90 gear.
    I've found censure damage to be fairly crappy. As for HoW, I'll admit, I completely forgot that our Mastery applies to it. Hitting for 250k though? Maybe I DO need to get into better gear(Which is really a given). For now, I'm getting it to 30k or so (when used as an execute, no CD's/raid buffs).

  19. #99
    Inquisition lasts a minute. or folded into another ability. Retribution immune to silence effects.

    Better Glyphs, (would be fun to have a glyph that let us glide ( with huge angel wings ) much like the engineering glider. )

    Otherwise better dps glyphs.

    eg

    Glyph of holy prism - the healing component effects 3 less targets but more damage on the single target
    Glyph of Execution - The hammer takes less time to fall cramming more damage in, but the CD is increased slightly.
    Glyph of lights hammer - The Hammer effects only up to 3 targets but the damage/healing is multiplied by 3.

    Those are just some of the top of my head suggestions.

  20. #100
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proxeneta View Post
    There is one thing I'm very curious about... HoW is a finisher right, in the same way that execute is a finisher, and the warlock's ability (Can't remember name), how on earth do warriors and locks crit 150k+ easily, and HoW crits for what? 50k?

    You said Warrior. You've already answered your own question. The answer is Warrior.
    Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"

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