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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    YES! 25 man groups finally get rewarded with better gear than 10 man. Back to the golden age of ICC.
    *Less individual pressure.
    *3 Battle Res' (more latitude for being bad)
    *Easier to stack FTOM classes
    *Tuned so that you can carry 10 bads with 15 good players.
    *Proportionally more loot

    Yep, 25 man groups clearly need to be 'rewarded'.
    Last edited by aim; 2012-10-25 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #322
    I think this might actually be a good idea in some respects.

    I have a guild I raid in, (mainly 10 man now) and have a number of friends I have made over the years in different guilds. Back when ICC was still 10/25 on separate lockouts, I would do 25 man with my guild and a bunch of us would get together and do 10 mans for "fun and profit" as we put it. I honestly would like this option again, beyond LFR, and without needing to level multiple alts to accomplish it.

  3. #323
    Iam fine with separate lock-outs, but BETTER LOOT - No. There is no reason 25-man groups should get better loot than 10-man.

  4. #324
    High Overlord Nokami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Iam fine with separate lock-outs, but BETTER LOOT - No. There is no reason 25-man groups should get better loot than 10-man.
    Why Playing 25s when you can get with a lower amount of skill any Boss in 10s? Blizzard should put more love in 25 man Raid-Groups.
    Just ask Paragon how it is to Play 10 Man.

    A lot easier to manage 10 people. It was nice too that we didn't have to change setups/players etc. for every boss, in the end I would prefer 25man if we could have 25 players with similar skill who put in the same effort.
    There was nothing to really rage about, everything went so smoothly with just 10 people in the raid.
    http://manaflask.com/en/article/2035...th-guildmaster
    Last edited by Nokami; 2012-10-25 at 12:38 PM.

  5. #325
    Best thing I've heard since the pre-Cata patch began the death of 25s. I'd give so much for this to come to EU.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokami View Post
    Why Playing 25s when you can get with a lower amount of skill any Boss in 10s? Blizzard should put more love in 25 man Raid-Groups.
    *Less individual pressure.
    *3 Battle Res' (more latitude for being bad)
    *Easier to stack FTOM classes
    *Tuned so that you can carry 10 bads with 15 good players.
    *Proportionally more loot
    Well there you have some reasons.

  7. #327
    High Overlord Nokami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Well there you have some reasons.
    Well, not sure if Trolling.

    1. Agree
    2. Not agree
    3. Only for Top 20 Guilds
    4. 25er is harder Tuned, you need atm 25 good Players
    5. More afford, more loot, as simply it is.

    Looks like you never played 25 Man at this Raiding Tier.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokami View Post
    Why Playing 25s when you can get with a lower amount of skill any Boss in 10s? Blizzard should put more love in 25 man Raid-Groups.
    Just ask Paragon how it is to Play 10 Man.



    http://manaflask.com/en/article/2035...th-guildmaster
    Totally wrong. Neither raid size is 'easier' or 'tougher' by default. As I said earlier it varies from encounter to encounter in both directions. And Paragon stated that they changed to 10 man because some of their team quit Wow.

  9. #329
    High Overlord Nokami's Avatar
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    And Paragon stated that they changed to 10 man because some of their team quit Wow.
    And instantly cleared with 10 skilled Players the Raid, so what now? Seems legit.
    If all the Top 20 Guilds would switch to 10 Man Raiding, any of the instances would be cleared in far less time.
    Last edited by Nokami; 2012-10-25 at 12:47 PM.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokami View Post
    Well, not sure if Trolling.

    1. Agree
    2. Not agree
    3. Only for Top 20 Guilds
    4. 25er is harder Tuned, you need atm 25 good Players
    5. More afford, more loot, as simply it is.

    Looks like you never played 25 Man at this Raiding Tier.
    TBH I was just quoting a guy further up that may or may not have 25-man experience. Only I have so far is LFR. And my computer is too bad to play 25-man content anyway. Anyhow 25mans being "harder to manage" isnt reason enough to reward better gear than 10-mans IMO. It's just a choice based on preference.
    Last edited by Ninjaderp; 2012-10-25 at 12:46 PM.

  11. #331
    It strikes me if you've got to offer better quality shinies to get people into 25s, people don't really want to do 25s.

  12. #332
    I want to have a choice. And offering better loot for 25 man removes it.

    @Nokami - because 25 man guilds were far behind and world first kills in Cata were all 10 man.

  13. #333
    Dreadlord the0o's Avatar
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    If applied to US servers I hope they change it too :


    Current tier Shares lockouts
    Prior tiers have seperate 10 / 25 lockouts

    "Humility defeats pride, Master Yang has preached. Pride defeats man"


  14. #334
    Dreadlord shimargh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aim View Post
    *Less individual pressure.
    *3 Battle Res' (more latitude for being bad)
    *Easier to stack FTOM classes
    *Tuned so that you can carry 10 bads with 15 good players.
    *Proportionally more loot

    Yep, 25 man groups clearly need to be 'rewarded'.
    thank you good man, if only they would understand this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion View Post
    The loss of the ability to pass on loot is the loss of the ability to choose. This is communism
    Quote Originally Posted by Torched View Post
    A year from now someone on these forums is gonna say that the (wod) launch went smoothly..... I am gonna remind that asshole of this launch, this shit is not going smoothly at all.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post


    Why is that? I mean if they split the locks up YOUR NOT FORCED TO DO 10s and 25s. Why shouldn't their be a seperate lock out....
    Sorry, but from a progression raiders PoV, thats the silliest thing I've ever heard. Its extra gear, that helps on progression.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    Most DPS checks require you to just (mostly) sit there and DPS so I'm not sure where you are seeing this increase in oportunity...

    Seriously DO run the numbers instead of attempting to make excuses. The extra leeway 10 man gets allows for poorer play, messing up your rotation, missing a few globals, and still meeting the DPS requirements without a sweat.
    i'm not arguing the fact that 25s do require more dps per player. but it is easier for them to get that dps. no question there. you might lose out on globals in 10s because you can't just let your good dps tunnel target swap tunnel target swap tunnel while everyone else does the work.

    these aren't excuses. i firmly believe that for non bads dpsing in 25s is a fuckload easier. inb4 lol pve dps is easy. i know this. just saying if i was going for wol attempts i'd rather do it in 25s.
    Last edited by Racthoh; 2012-10-25 at 01:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    The short answer is nope, the long answer is noooooooooooooooope.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokami View Post
    And instantly cleared with 10 skilled Players the Raid, so what now? Seems legit.
    If all the Top 20 Guilds would switch to 10 Man Raiding, any of the instances would be cleared in far less time.
    How do you know they wouldn't have done the same with 25 man if they had enough people? seems legit
    This is absolutely the attitude and language that, in this community, needs to go sit in the corner for a while. If you can't stand the thought of there being multiple difficulty tiers of content -- into which we pour a lot of our development efforts -- to make raiding feasible for more than 2% of players, hit Heroic mode, turn on vent, and repeatedly remind your friends how good you are. I have no doubt they care

  18. #338
    Hello the influx of 25man raiding guilds again.

    after they killed them off in cata ! >.<

  19. #339
    No. No more separated lockouts.

    Maybe better items, but with the same lockout. You choose: 25 or 10, done.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Nokami View Post
    Well, not sure if Trolling.

    1. Agree
    2. Not agree
    3. Only for Top 20 Guilds
    4. 25er is harder Tuned, you need atm 25 good Players
    5. More afford, more loot, as simply it is.

    Looks like you never played 25 Man at this Raiding Tier.
    Not sure if trolling.

    2. You don't agree with number 2? Its a fact, you get 3 res's compared to 1, 3 people are alowed to 'oops, my bad' and you don't lose need to lose a player.
    3. Any guild, most of my guild have 3+ Alts and are capable of playing them all to a high standard, so lets assume you have 30 raiders in your 25 man guild, thats ~90 toons to choose from. I know thats not 100% accurate depending on what toons people have, but DPS is a dime a dozen.
    4. If 25 is harder tuned in this expac, it will be the first time it ever has been (admittedly, not played 25s this tier, but I'm inclined not to believe the 25 man guilds that say it is, because they always say it is, even when its clearly easier.... gg for misplaced ego and elitism). The 'hard' part of 25's is carrying the inevitable dead weight, not the tuning.
    5. 10man - 2 pieces. 25 - 6 pieces.... does not compute, should be 5, and even then, as already stated, multiple drops of the same thing = speed gearing.

    Anyway, I've said my part, its fact, not opinion, and I refuse to argue the points with people because arguing with wow players is like trying to discuss religion with the religious.

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