5.1 10 / 25 Seperate Lockouts

[TobiasX]

So you think better loot makes for better raidleaders? Heroic loot from heroic bosses isnt enough?

I never said the raid leaders would be better, only that there would be more of them.

I could see this being true for about a month or so, then those same leaders will remember that leading those 24 idiots is not worth the gear and then just take the higher gear they got and go back to 10mans. It still ALL comes down to the raiders, not the leader... a good leader does not magically make everyone play better. It helps, sure, but dumb people will be dumb.

That's happened to raid groups I've been part of a few times but never in wrath. I think many raid leaders will endure it because they get better items.

I could see separate lock outs for sure, that by itself would bring some life back to 25 mans simply because people would have the options to run more then one raid each week and get a higher chance at some gear, BUT there is simply no need at all for the higher ilvl gear to drop since the content itself is not harder and higher gear does not make it easier it "manager" a raid of 25 people.

If 10-mans and 25-mans dropped the same loot, and had separate lockouts, I'm confident in saying that the vast majority of players would go to 10-mans because more raid leaders would be prepared to lead a smaller group with less muppets in it. The primary reason that 25-mans were more popular in WotLK than they are now was the better loot.

[aim]

YES! 25 man groups finally get rewarded with better gear than 10 man. Back to the golden age of ICC.

*Less individual pressure.
*3 Battle Res' (more latitude for being bad)
*Easier to stack FTOM classes
*Tuned so that you can carry 10 bads with 15 good players.
*Proportionally more loot

Yep, 25 man groups clearly need to be 'rewarded'.

[Darksideblues42]

I think this might actually be a good idea in some respects.

I have a guild I raid in, (mainly 10 man now) and have a number of friends I have made over the years in different guilds. Back when ICC was still 10/25 on separate lockouts, I would do 25 man with my guild and a bunch of us would get together and do 10 mans for "fun and profit" as we put it. I honestly would like this option again, beyond LFR, and without needing to level multiple alts to accomplish it.

[Trollfaced]

Iam fine with separate lock-outs, but BETTER LOOT - No. There is no reason 25-man groups should get better loot than 10-man.

[Nokami]

Iam fine with separate lock-outs, but BETTER LOOT - No. There is no reason 25-man groups should get better loot than 10-man.

Why Playing 25s when you can get with a lower amount of skill any Boss in 10s? Blizzard should put more love in 25 man Raid-Groups.
Just ask Paragon how it is to Play 10 Man.

A lot easier to manage 10 people. It was nice too that we didn't have to change setups/players etc. for every boss, in the end I would prefer 25man if we could have 25 players with similar skill who put in the same effort.

There was nothing to really rage about, everything went so smoothly with just 10 people in the raid.

http://manaflask.com/en/article/2035...th-guildmaster

[maladicta]

Best thing I've heard since the pre-Cata patch began the death of 25s. I'd give so much for this to come to EU.

[Trollfaced]

Why Playing 25s when you can get with a lower amount of skill any Boss in 10s? Blizzard should put more love in 25 man Raid-Groups.

*Less individual pressure.
*3 Battle Res' (more latitude for being bad)
*Easier to stack FTOM classes
*Tuned so that you can carry 10 bads with 15 good players.
*Proportionally more loot

Well there you have some reasons.

[Nokami]

Well there you have some reasons.

Well, not sure if Trolling.

1. Agree
2. Not agree
3. Only for Top 20 Guilds
4. 25er is harder Tuned, you need atm 25 good Players
5. More afford, more loot, as simply it is.

Looks like you never played 25 Man at this Raiding Tier.

[Vasilisa]

Why Playing 25s when you can get with a lower amount of skill any Boss in 10s? Blizzard should put more love in 25 man Raid-Groups.
Just ask Paragon how it is to Play 10 Man.



http://manaflask.com/en/article/2035...th-guildmaster

Totally wrong. Neither raid size is 'easier' or 'tougher' by default. As I said earlier it varies from encounter to encounter in both directions. And Paragon stated that they changed to 10 man because some of their team quit Wow.

[Nokami]

And Paragon stated that they changed to 10 man because some of their team quit Wow.

And instantly cleared with 10 skilled Players the Raid, so what now? Seems legit.
If all the Top 20 Guilds would switch to 10 Man Raiding, any of the instances would be cleared in far less time.

[Trollfaced]

Well, not sure if Trolling.

1. Agree
2. Not agree
3. Only for Top 20 Guilds
4. 25er is harder Tuned, you need atm 25 good Players
5. More afford, more loot, as simply it is.

Looks like you never played 25 Man at this Raiding Tier.

TBH I was just quoting a guy further up that may or may not have 25-man experience. Only I have so far is LFR. And my computer is too bad to play 25-man content anyway. Anyhow 25mans being "harder to manage" isnt reason enough to reward better gear than 10-mans IMO. It's just a choice based on preference.

[vaccine]

It strikes me if you've got to offer better quality shinies to get people into 25s, people don't really want to do 25s.

[Vasilisa]

I want to have a choice. And offering better loot for 25 man removes it.

@Nokami - because 25 man guilds were far behind and world first kills in Cata were all 10 man.

[the0o]

If applied to US servers I hope they change it too :


Current tier Shares lockouts
Prior tiers have seperate 10 / 25 lockouts

[shimargh]

*Less individual pressure.
*3 Battle Res' (more latitude for being bad)
*Easier to stack FTOM classes
*Tuned so that you can carry 10 bads with 15 good players.
*Proportionally more loot

Yep, 25 man groups clearly need to be 'rewarded'.

thank you good man, if only they would understand this.

[mrgreenthump]

Why is that? I mean if they split the locks up YOUR NOT FORCED TO DO 10s and 25s. Why shouldn't their be a seperate lock out....

Sorry, but from a progression raiders PoV, thats the silliest thing I've ever heard. Its extra gear, that helps on progression.

[Racthoh]

Most DPS checks require you to just (mostly) sit there and DPS so I'm not sure where you are seeing this increase in oportunity...

Seriously DO run the numbers instead of attempting to make excuses. The extra leeway 10 man gets allows for poorer play, messing up your rotation, missing a few globals, and still meeting the DPS requirements without a sweat.

i'm not arguing the fact that 25s do require more dps per player. but it is easier for them to get that dps. no question there. you might lose out on globals in 10s because you can't just let your good dps tunnel target swap tunnel target swap tunnel while everyone else does the work.

these aren't excuses. i firmly believe that for non bads dpsing in 25s is a fuckload easier. inb4 lol pve dps is easy. i know this. just saying if i was going for wol attempts i'd rather do it in 25s.

[jn2002dk]

And instantly cleared with 10 skilled Players the Raid, so what now? Seems legit.
If all the Top 20 Guilds would switch to 10 Man Raiding, any of the instances would be cleared in far less time.

How do you know they wouldn't have done the same with 25 man if they had enough people? seems legit

[GIVEMEANAME]

Hello the influx of 25man raiding guilds again.

after they killed them off in cata ! >.<

[XingoJenkins]

No. No more separated lockouts.

Maybe better items, but with the same lockout. You choose: 25 or 10, done.