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  1. #41
    Grunt lovfawth's Avatar
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    all ASIAN realms including CN,TW,KR realms
    http://www.battlenet.com.cn/wow/zh/b...%8825%E6%97%A5

    "我们希望籍由这一改动来为包括中国在内的亚洲地区玩家提供更符 该地区游戏习惯的" means "we hope the seperate lockouts will let asian players (including China) have fun in their habits."

    the rest is the same meaning as korean post
    Last edited by lovfawth; 2012-10-25 at 06:46 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    dont know if this is true but i remember at some point someone telling me Koreans loved 25 mans alot compared to 10 mans.

    i still dont get why 25 should get better loot sure it takes more people but its alot easier
    Don't make a claim that simply isn't true. 25's simply really are harder this tier. DPS checks are tighter and damage is bigger. Just because your 10 man guild has 6 bad DPS in it doesn't mean the DPS checks are harder for 10's. I've cleared on both modes. My guild's main group is 25 man. I've also cleared in an alt group on 10 man. I can tell you without a doubt that we had a MUCH easier time on 10 man than we have on 25. I promise you, it takes a lot more to clear the place on 25 than 10.

    Back tot he topic at hand, I would seriously love to see this sort of change. It is impossible for Blizzard to make the two difficulties the same. All they end up doing is separating the community. 10 man guilds are the most progressed on my realm. Of course they all insist that simply makes them better because 10's are harder than 25's right? They must be, since Paragon switched.

    Switch it back to seperate lockouts with seperate loot levels. Guilds can go back to 25 man if they want. They can get better gear for putting in harder work. Guilds that can't recruit, can stick to 10 mans. The gear they get in these 10's will be sufficient for the difficulty they are attempting. the only reason 10 man guilds felt compelled to run 25's on top of 10's was to get better than 10 man loot because they didn't have the skill to down the encounters with the intended loot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Besides, they have updated models, updated abilities, and are in completely different locations. Really the only thing psyically the same is their names, so if you don't care for plotlines whats it matter who the dragons are? They're just meaningless loot bags to you.
    Shaman Armory
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  3. #43
    So what does this mean for the world first race? Are we going to start ignoring asian kills now? Not only will their 25man item level be higher than ours, but they can gear up a raid faster from running both 10 and 25.

  4. #44
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramile View Post
    Don't make a claim that simply isn't true. 25's simply really are harder this tier. DPS checks are tighter and damage is bigger. Just because your 10 man guild has 6 bad DPS in it doesn't mean the DPS checks are harder for 10's. I've cleared on both modes. My guild's main group is 25 man. I've also cleared in an alt group on 10 man. I can tell you without a doubt that we had a MUCH easier time on 10 man than we have on 25. I promise you, it takes a lot more to clear the place on 25 than 10.

    Back tot he topic at hand, I would seriously love to see this sort of change. It is impossible for Blizzard to make the two difficulties the same. All they end up doing is separating the community. 10 man guilds are the most progressed on my realm. Of course they all insist that simply makes them better because 10's are harder than 25's right? They must be, since Paragon switched.

    Switch it back to seperate lockouts with seperate loot levels. Guilds can go back to 25 man if they want. They can get better gear for putting in harder work. Guilds that can't recruit, can stick to 10 mans. The gear they get in these 10's will be sufficient for the difficulty they are attempting. the only reason 10 man guilds felt compelled to run 25's on top of 10's was to get better than 10 man loot because they didn't have the skill to down the encounters with the intended loot.
    Or make it even simpler and introduce a singular difficulty level; 15 mans.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
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  5. #45
    no, this would be a slap in the face to all the raiders that changed to 10 man from 25 man.much easier to down size from 25 to 10 but to turn your 10man guild/raid back into a 25 would be much harder.

    im sure most folks shouting for this are already in 25 man raiding guild. if your guilds are having trouble.guess what? get better leaders.

    they better not change this...............

    also having raided 25 man and 10 man full heroic clearing in cata. laugh all you like but no doubt about it 25 mans are easier and more forgiveable. i know you sole 25 raiders dont want to hear but coming from someone who did both fully and heroic, its damn true..

    our heroic 25 man could lose 3 sometimes up to 5 people and the boss would still die a lot of the time.in our heroic 10 man, if we even lost 1 person, most of the time, it was a wipe.hence 25's =more forgivable
    Last edited by Sariengrey; 2012-10-25 at 06:54 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    YES! 25 man groups finally get rewarded with better gear than 10 man. Back to the golden age of ICC.
    The "golden age" where a social guild full of twits and mouthbreathers wiped their way through reg 25 barely downing LK at 30% and got rewarded with gear equivalent to that of a smaller, skilled guild that bested 10 heroic before the nerfs got faceroll? nty

    It'd be nice if the only thing that changed was the ilvl and not the stats.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramile View Post
    I've also cleared in an alt group on 10 man. I can tell you without a doubt that we had a MUCH easier time on 10 man than we have on 25. I promise you, it takes a lot more to clear the place on 25 than 10.
    Wow, here we go again, it's like paragon stating "yeah, we had 700 tries on 25 heroic and killed it, got the loot for it and THEN went to do it in 10 man, LOL, we "only" needed 50 tries (who needs so many after they had 700 in the other one?) and killed it with our gear from the 25 hc kill.

    Why don't people think about that at all? You could also do this the other way round, do you know why 10 man players don't say? Because they don't have the choice to "just" do 25's when they please, they don't have the ressources, but all around 25 man looks easier for mogu'shan vaults overall. 2,5 times the cooldowns a 10 man has and for bosses like gara'jal and stone guard you only have like 10/15% of your raid running/doing things while the rest enjoys free casting. In 10 man you have sometimes 40/50% of your raiding running@ stone guard and sometimes you can't even go down into the spirit realm because you got unlucky voodoo dolls. Oh right, you don't know about that because having 4 people go down is like, oh my god, 16% of our raid is there, and 16% have the dolls (even including tanks), lets just hope 68% isn't fucking up standing around freecasting the whole fight. 10 man -> 30% Down in realms, 30% voodoo dolls, lets hope none of our 2 healers gets dolls or some dps has to go down to heal and we lose overall boss dps, making the kill almost impossible.

  8. #48
    lol. I cannot wait for this to go live. I translated the korea realm as well. Confirmed. The "golden age" of 10 mans is over.

  9. #49
    I'm conflicted on this.

    I can see the benefits, but for the most part I'd just rather they remain on the same lockout.

  10. #50
    Look it from a progression oriented 10 man guild PoV(even it this would apply only to korea)

    25 man gives better loot--> better loot = better progression ---> you do 25 man ---> you need to recruit 2-2.5x more people --> but hey 10 man heroics still give upgrades now ---> run 10 man heroic aswell as 25 man heroic ---> and now with 16 bosses your 3-5 day raiding changed to 5-6 days to get everything done...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aramile View Post
    Don't make a claim that simply isn't true. 25's simply really are harder this tier. DPS checks are tighter and damage is bigger. Just because your 10 man guild has 6 bad DPS in it doesn't mean the DPS checks are harder for 10's. I've cleared on both modes. My guild's main group is 25 man. I've also cleared in an alt group on 10 man. I can tell you without a doubt that we had a MUCH easier time on 10 man than we have on 25. I promise you, it takes a lot more to clear the place on 25 than 10.
    Your guild is 1/6 of heroic, you havent even gotten to the dps check fights as a 10 man. hell you havent even downed heroic first boss as 10 man cause it aint as easy as it is for a 25 man. Stop making claims when you havent seen any but 2 heroic fights whole tier..

  11. #51
    Dreadlord
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    No, no, no. I do not need a repeat of the burnout that raiding the same raids twice a week caused me back in Wrath. So long as this stays only on the KR servers, I don't care, but implementing it globally is a horrible idea.

  12. #52
    accidental double post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Besides, they have updated models, updated abilities, and are in completely different locations. Really the only thing psyically the same is their names, so if you don't care for plotlines whats it matter who the dragons are? They're just meaningless loot bags to you.
    Shaman Armory
    Mage Armory

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Aramile View Post
    Don't make a claim that simply isn't true. 25's simply really are harder this tier. DPS checks are tighter and damage is bigger. Just because your 10 man guild has 6 bad DPS in it doesn't mean the DPS checks are harder for 10's. I've cleared on both modes. My guild's main group is 25 man. I've also cleared in an alt group on 10 man. I can tell you without a doubt that we had a MUCH easier time on 10 man than we have on 25. I promise you, it takes a lot more to clear the place on 25 than 10.

    Back tot he topic at hand, I would seriously love to see this sort of change. It is impossible for Blizzard to make the two difficulties the same. All they end up doing is separating the community. 10 man guilds are the most progressed on my realm. Of course they all insist that simply makes them better because 10's are harder than 25's right? They must be, since Paragon switched.

    Switch it back to seperate lockouts with seperate loot levels. Guilds can go back to 25 man if they want. They can get better gear for putting in harder work. Guilds that can't recruit, can stick to 10 mans. The gear they get in these 10's will be sufficient for the difficulty they are attempting. the only reason 10 man guilds felt compelled to run 25's on top of 10's was to get better than 10 man loot because they didn't have the skill to down the encounters with the intended loot.
    why the fck is this 25man is harder than 10man still going on? If YOU want the challenge, go for 25's, find yourself a guild and get carried through hardmodes. If you don't want to do 10mans because they're easier in your opinion, simply don't do them. Also, what you're telling us is that after completing one mode, the second time you do it on another mode which has less players is actually easier. I'd take your point as valid if you'd done 10man first and then 25 to compare.
    If they were to separate lockouts with different loot and you were doing 25mans and wanted to do a 10man after, it would seem even easier for you, and you said that's not what you want. But if I were doing 10man progression and got lower loot but still wanted to do a 25man this week, it would be that much harder for me because of the loot i'll have, meaning i'll have to switch to 25man.
    Separate locks are gone for a reason and I personally don't really feel the need for them, although they're not that much of an issue to me.

  14. #54
    I speak for allot of ex 25 man raiders when I say what I'm about to..

    25 man was in fact probably the best experience wow has ever given us, the idea of looking at a new fight face to face with 24 other people and having to work out a strategy and progress that fight. There is also other factors we have to look at tho, to keep a solid 25 man guild going you need a roster of about 35-40 people, anyone who denies this is obviously close to casual. The changes cataclysm brought was a good insight tho of actually how stable 25 man was, most guilds folded at the change and only the established ones remain around today.. I mean how many 25 man guilds do you see created that are successful compared to 10 man?.

    The idea of separating the lockouts again on EU and US servers is something blizzard will need to think allot about before putting in action, most people didn't jump onto the 10 man raiding just because its "easy". The sad but true fact is that allot of people were sick and tired of carrying slackers in 25 mans. People who would turn up late, not bother at all to show up.. turn up without researching the encounter ect. 10 man offered a smaller tighter group of people to keep close monitor on one and another to maintain a healthy style of raiding.

    Myself I will simply stop if I'm forced to go back into a 25 man raiding scenario and watch 15 people try to carry 10, and I'm not the only.

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Why would you run 10 mans if you prefer 25 mans? I'll tell you why, because 10 mans are alot easier. That's why our 25 man raid broke up when they offered equivalent gear for running 10 mans. I dont understand why anyone can get away with claiming 10 mans are on the same level difficulty wise they just aren't.

  16. #56
    Mechagnome bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    No, no, no. I do not need a repeat of the burnout that raiding the same raids twice a week caused me back in Wrath. So long as this stays only on the KR servers, I don't care, but implementing it globally is a horrible idea.
    I seriously doubt you have anything to worry about Zaydin. As i said a few post back, this is most likely just a way to make more money based on the lack of a subscription sale in the affected area. I honestly believe that there are more people who don't want this than do, and despite what people think, Blizzard tends to look out for whats best for the game. Implementing both with cause massive burn out on the levels of ICC, and Blizzard does not want to do that again.
    "Allons-y!" - David Tennant - 10th Doctor.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    not looking forward if this moves to all servers
    As a raid leader for 4 years this is some of the worst news I have seen in a long time. Sure all the ppl that just come and go to whatever raids they can will be thrilled. The ppl that actually have to go back and set these up all just died a little bit. If nothing else seeing how many ppl wont be able to raid 25s with the insane amount of spell effects flying all over now should be interesting.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 12:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    Why would you run 10 mans if you prefer 25 mans? I'll tell you why, because 10 mans are alot easier. That's why our 25 man raid broke up when they offered equivalent gear for running 10 mans. I dont understand why anyone can get away with claiming 10 mans are on the same level difficulty wise they just aren't.
    In the current raid 25 man is much easier once you are inside the doors and fighting. 10 mans are easier when you are setting up the groups, normally. Every fight is easier in 25 right now even if you dont have 15 ppl as good as the top 10 in that raid.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  18. #58
    Not everyone is jobless. It wouldn't make a lot of sense on American or European realms (Not sure why it does on Asian servers anyway). Unless jobless people wants a free ride to the top of the leaderboards.

  19. #59
    No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no ... and NO!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL9g3Qknf_Q
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zNjQecyjE8

    ATM people have choice - either do 10 or 25 man, whatever suits you, your group, your needs etc.. 25 might be "dying" only because people don't want this format..
    If they introduced this change the choice would be to either stick to 10 man, or do both for twice the chance of getting loot.. That is not a choice at all - everyone who at least thinks about raiding will feel forced to do it..

    How many "elite raiders" bitch on forums that "they are forced to do LFR to progress"?.. Now add to that equation a third format.. And suddenly anyone who thinks about raiding will "be forced" to do LFR, 10 and 25 man in one week, each week... Is that what you people want? O_O

    Realistically.. If you have a choice to get loot once a week, or 3 times a week - what do you choose? And is it really a free choice? No..
    Last edited by DemoBytom; 2012-10-25 at 07:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  20. #60
    Not looking forward to running 10 man, but since my Guild switched to 25 3 weeks ago i am WANT THE Better LOOT!!!
    Fire walk with me!

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