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  1. #61
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    I'd love it if they'd make this available to ALL realms.... I've been begging for this since day 1 of cata patch. Maybe this could keep me from quitting soon.

  2. #62
    It's so funny that people want 10man to get worse EPIXXXXX than themselves. Why the fuck do you care?

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Megraam View Post
    They should also remove all achievements from 10 ppl version, not only loot. Or at least make it with a comment "10 man" like it was in WotLK.
    While they're at it they should just delete any character who enters a 10 man raid.

  4. #64
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    In WotLK, I was happy to have 4 versions of a raid a week. Because there was nothing else to do. A raid was clear in 2 hours or less (aside from Ulduar, which was the one raid that only pugged the first few bosses and then usually disbanded, so people just gave up on that instance entirely until they outgeared it and could faceroll most things).

    In Cata, I was mad that you could only do your usual 25-man and then sat around the rest of the week with nothing more to do.

    In MoP, we split off from our old 25-man, being tired of all the dead weight, and I'm actually glad that there is only one lockout to clear, especially seeing as we're about to get a further 2 raid instances that need to be cleared within the week.

    I really wouldn't want to leave all my lovely people behind to join a random 25-man guild on some other server, especially since we've only been playing together in this setup for roughly 4 weeks now and found that we're starting to mesh together quite well.

    *sigh* This is horrible. That this news even puts the thought in my mind that I'd need to leave friends behind if I want to be respected as a raider...

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by zucchellij View Post
    While they're at it they should just delete any character who enters a 10 man raid.
    Yes and if you raid 25 man you should unlock the title "IM SPECIAL"

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 09:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    In WotLK, I was happy to have 4 versions of a raid a week. Because there was nothing else to do. A raid was clear in 2 hours or less (aside from Ulduar, which was the one raid that only pugged the first few bosses and then usually disbanded, so people just gave up on that instance entirely until they outgeared it and could faceroll most things).

    In Cata, I was mad that you could only do your usual 25-man and then sat around the rest of the week with nothing more to do.

    In MoP, we split off from our old 25-man, being tired of all the dead weight, and I'm actually glad that there is only one lockout to clear, especially seeing as we're about to get a further 2 raid instances that need to be cleared within the week.

    I really wouldn't want to leave all my lovely people behind to join a random 25-man guild on some other server, especially since we've only been playing together in this setup for roughly 4 weeks now and found that we're starting to mesh together quite well.

    *sigh* This is horrible. That this news even puts the thought in my mind that I'd need to leave friends behind if I want to be respected as a raider...
    Wait what? You will leave your friends for a few itemlevels?

  6. #66
    this tired ass argument again?

    give it up, no one will ever agree

  7. #67
    What's with all the whining? If 25 man gives better loot you can still do 10 man. No one will be stopping you. The fact 25 man is much harder to organize and run and needs better incentives compared to 10. I will go as far as to say that 10 man shouldn't drop heroic mounts, because you get 150% more mount per person than 25. Remember all the Ragnaros hc pugs? They were all 10 man since it was easy to find 10 people and know you will get the mount in less than 10 weeks.

    People who claim 25 were dying because people dont love them are demented.

  8. #68
    I was carried in a 25m Icc Raid to LK Normal Mode,

    But I actually made a difference and contributed more in 10 man Heroic LK Kill.

    To much content outside of raids for seperate lockouts now.

    Nty to 6 raids a week.

  9. #69
    25m finally getting rewarded for the harder content, make this patch go global please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    I think this thread proves that in WotLK, not only has being bad and lazy become acceptable, but a defendable position and point of pride for some people.

  10. #70
    people who are hoping this to go live on all servers don't understand that some really good players like myself simply don't have a pc capable of raiding in 25 mans to maximum potential. i'm not going to raid 25s when my competitiveness is cut by a massive amount due to fps issues. fuck that.

    Quote Originally Posted by facerollin View Post
    25m finally getting rewarded for the harder content, make this patch go global please.
    edit: oh and i don't even see where people get the idea of 25 man deserving more respect when a good majority of the players probably get to sit back and faceroll their rotations the entire time while a small portion of the better players handle all the mechanics. not to mention 10s have an extra hurdle to overcome comp issues where 25s have everything they need.

    lol. inb4 non skill relevant roster issues.

    wow that turned into a rant quick. lmao. sorry. i don't even have a raid group anymore not sure why i care.
    Last edited by Racthoh; 2012-10-25 at 07:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    The short answer is nope, the long answer is noooooooooooooooope.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    People who claim 25 were dying because people dont love them are demented.
    People who claim that the choice between doing 1 raid with 1 chance to get loot vs 2 raids with 2 chances to get even better loot is, a free choice, are demented.

    It will be like ICC.. People will be "forced" to do both formats to stay competetive, to progress etc.. Just like they feel "forced" to run LFR even if they don't want it..
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    In tbc everyone wished they were playing vanilla. In cataclysm everyone will wish they were playing wotlk.
    ^------True story!!

  12. #72
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    I raided 25 mans in their hayday (TBC and WotLK), doing server first KJ, server first Yogg0, server first H-LK, etc. We went 10 man in Cata, and never looked back. Still server first in everything since then (except Al'akir), and that was with Sinestra being literally impossible in 10 man til February (I suppose that says something about our server).

    The problem is, the hardcore progression raiders of Ulduar and ICC are now 3 years older at least (and that's if you started raiding hardcore in ICC) and probably have more responsibilities. I don't have time to do a 25 man raid and a 10 man raid in a week, and if there are chances of upgrades in 10 man, progression guilds will want to run 10 mans. If Blizzard essentially neuters 10 mans as a progression path, and forces us to do 25s to be competitive - I'll just stop raiding and focus on work til they sort their shit out. My bosses'll be super happy. It's not because I'm not "skilled enough" to do 25s (which is a joke, really, if you're skilled enough to do H10 man you're skilled enough to do H25 - you see slower progression on 10 because everyone is accountable and the 'l335 DPS skillz' need to be balanced against the 'being accountable for one thing because you're the only one doing it'), it's because 25s are a pain in the ass. Even in an elite guild, there's less skilled people.

    As for the question of the difficulty of raids recently since the shared lockout, I'll say the following: T11 was much harder on 10 man heroic, HT12 was a split (Beth/Rhyo/Baleroc/even Alys a bit were harder on 10, the others easier). HT13 10 man was harder on Morchok (but was still a joke), Hagara, Blackhorn, and Madness, Yors'ahj was a push, Zon'ozz, Ultra, and Spine were harder on 25 (and because Ultra and Spine were seen as the "walls" there's this general misconception that DS was harder on 25 man.)

    I haven't yet been in a 25 man for MSV, but heroic wise, I think Gara'jal is clearly harder on 10. If your tanks are competent, SG is easier on 25man, because even with good tanks in 10 man shit goes bad fast if you let it. Feng, don't know, I haven't really heard of any guild having serious difficulty with him on either difficulty. SK is probably harder on 25, Elegon harder on 10 (because you have to 2 heal, cover a side by yourself on transitions, have one dps cover a spark him/herself, lol). H-WotE probably harder on 25 man, though with the vengeance nerfs making it harder for a 3rd tank to soak sparks on WotE 10 man, that may be harder than it was when Paragon downed it.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2012-10-25 at 07:31 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    YES! 25 man groups finally get rewarded with better gear than 10 man. Back to the golden age of ICC.
    If they do this they should just delete 10 man raiding and force everybody to raid 25 man or not at all. Having multiple raid sizes just ensures that someone feels like they are being treated unfairly.

  14. #74
    I don't get the "DON'T BRING IT IN I'LL HAVE TO RAID MOAR" crowd. It's a game, not a job. who cares if you can't do both 10 and 25 in a week while others can. If it is simply because they will get more gear that you are Buttfrustrated who cares since they would be putting in more time anyways.

    I say bring back 10 and 25 seperate definitely, since there are weeks I do 10's and weeks I do 25's, and weeks when I have the time to do both.

    Far too many colonpained people in this thread.

  15. #75
    I hope this shit will never come back to EU. Current way of raiding is fine. This shit practically forces you to do both to gear up faster. I have a life, I don't need this change back.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    If they do this they should just delete 10 man raiding and force everybody to raid 25 man or not at all. Having multiple raid sizes just ensures that someone feels like they are being treated unfairly.
    Morons always feel like they are being treated unfairly. Doesn't mean it is true.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    YES! 25 man groups finally get rewarded with better gear than 10 man. Back to the golden age of ICC.
    People with your attitude deserve to get rewarded with a baseball bat. In the face.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Ituhippi View Post
    I hope this shit will never come back to EU. Current way of raiding is fine. This shit practically forces you to do both to gear up faster. I have a life, I don't need this change back.
    If you have a life, why do you NEED to gear up and get pixels in a videogame. Backwards logic HO!!!

  19. #79
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    I don't get the "DON'T BRING IT IN I'LL HAVE TO RAID MOAR" crowd. It's a game, not a job. who cares if you can't do both 10 and 25 in a week while others can. If it is simply because they will get more gear that you are Buttfrustrated who cares since they would be putting in more time anyways.

    I say bring back 10 and 25 seperate definitely, since there are weeks I do 10's and weeks I do 25's, and weeks when I have the time to do both.

    Far too many colonpained people in this thread.
    Because under the old system there was a feeling of obligation to do 25 mans for the gear; furthermore, it was never the case that 10 man raiders had less time available, quite frequently they were unable to maintain a steady 25 man team. Not to mention the drama when it comes time to split up into two 10 mans....

    By the end of Wrath, 25 mans felt the same as 40 mans back in the day. Insufferable to organise, with the feeling that 5 - 10 people were being carried by a core team of 15 people.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  20. #80
    this would completely fuck up 10 man progression with people using 25 man gear -.-

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