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  1. #81
    hm this is rather a curious approach on the KR servers, yes 25man needed some incentives, but unsure if many of the wow player base would agree. Glad they are trying though, the only real 25mans left now are hardcore world top guilds.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Lol I like how two of you didn't read most of it

    ''Only KR players''
    Or they are Korean =o ??

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Because under the old system there was a feeling of obligation to do 25 mans for the gear; furthermore, it was never the case that 10 man raiders had less time available, quite frequently they were unable to maintain a steady 25 man team. Not to mention the drama when it comes time to split up into two 10 mans....

    By the end of Wrath, 25 mans felt the same as 40 mans back in the day. Insufferable to organise, with the feeling that 5 - 10 people were being carried by a core team of 15 people.
    If people feel an "obligation" that is their problem. I like having the choice to run both if I want, but I'm also not so disconnected from reality that "I MUST GET DEM DERE PIXELS GUISE ERRYWEEK"

  4. #84
    The Patient Avrantia's Avatar
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    God no. Hope this stays in Asia.

  5. #85
    Guess this puts 10-man back to second class raiders, assuming it spreads to the rest of the realms.

    Doomhammer EU

  6. #86
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    If people feel an "obligation" that is their problem. I like having the choice to run both if I want, but I'm also not so disconnected from reality that "I MUST GET DEM DERE PIXELS GUISE ERRYWEEK"
    Bully for you, but my points remain. The ideal solution is to cut down to a singular raid size (15, ideally) and make LFR share lockouts with normal/heroic raids.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #87
    The Patient Avrantia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Bully for you, but my points remain. The ideal solution is to cut down to a singular raid size (15, ideally) and make LFR share lockouts with normal/heroic raids.
    Agreed with you. That would be quite awesome

  8. #88
    I hope they move this to all servers, I loved the old system.

  9. #89

  10. #90
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    Guess this puts 10-man back to second class raiders, assuming it spreads to the rest of the realms.
    Despite the fact 10 mans were often harder. -laughs- You can afford to lose a couple of "bads" in 25 man, in 10 man losing a single person can jeopardize the fight.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Bully for you, but my points remain. The ideal solution is to cut down to a singular raid size (15, ideally) and make LFR share lockouts with normal/heroic raids.
    I'd love this just so nobody could say "X raid size doesn't count" anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Despite the fact 10 mans were often harder. -laughs- You can afford to lose a couple of "bads" in 25 man, in 10 man losing a single person can jeopardize the fight.
    I've not done enough of both to say on the first part but I agree that you can afford to lose more people on 25-man, because it's a smaller proportion of your group. I like to think of a team member dying on 25-man being roughly equal to a hunter / warlock / death knight pet dying on 10-man: annoying, but an inconvenience rather than wipemaker.
    Last edited by TobiasX; 2012-10-25 at 07:51 AM.

    Doomhammer EU

  12. #92
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    make LFR share lockouts with normal/heroic raids.
    Despite your avatar, I'm going to have to say that this is a pretty horrible idea.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Bully for you, but my points remain. The ideal solution is to cut down to a singular raid size (15, ideally) and make LFR share lockouts with normal/heroic raids.
    While I am indeed in favour of a 1 size lockout of 15. I just cannot comprehend why people are sooo mad about seperate lockouts until such time. I thoroughly enjoy 25mans. It just seems the laziness of people has gotten to a point of it is easier to find 10 people really quick lets go get mah epix!.

    I always saw 10mans as a way to see content with a small group that was relatively easy. where as 25 was harder to get together and sync with thus higher rewards.

    Meh. I guess it will never come back to US servers as too many people seem like they would complain, even though most of said people probably complain about a lack of things to do in the meantime.

  14. #94
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkenaw View Post
    Despite your avatar, I'm going to have to say that this is a pretty horrible idea.
    Why, exactly?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  15. #95
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by digmouse View Post
    This change is for Asian servers only apparently.
    And that is a shame

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  16. #96
    The Patient Meqq's Avatar
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    WTB This on all realms.

  17. #97
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    While I am indeed in favour of a 1 size lockout of 15. I just cannot comprehend why people are sooo mad about seperate lockouts until such time. I thoroughly enjoy 25mans. It just seems the laziness of people has gotten to a point of it is easier to find 10 people really quick lets go get mah epix!.

    I always saw 10mans as a way to see content with a small group that was relatively easy. where as 25 was harder to get together and sync with thus higher rewards.

    Meh. I guess it will never come back to US servers as too many people seem like they would complain, even though most of said people probably complain about a lack of things to do in the meantime.
    Except the reality was that 10 mans were of equal if not greater difficulty to 25 mans due to mechanic tuning and the fact that you can't afford to lose players in 10 man.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  18. #98
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Why, exactly?
    It would completely kill LFR for one thing. Queues would be insane, and with normal/heroic raiders not being able to do it anymore, groups would be wiping on trash.

  19. #99
    25 mans = harder to get enough people on time but easier raids

    10 mans = easier to get enough people but harder raids
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Except the reality was that 10 mans were of equal if not greater difficulty to 25 mans due to mechanic tuning and the fact that you can't afford to lose players in 10 man.
    Having done both extensively, 25's is certainly harder. Blizzard agrees and will be rewarding 25m raiders accordingly, there was even talk of dividing the achievements again too.

    Your anecdotal evidence is just that, worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    I think this thread proves that in WotLK, not only has being bad and lazy become acceptable, but a defendable position and point of pride for some people.

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