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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by lios View Post
    This would be insane. Once again forcing people to raid 10 and 25... It will lead to a loss of subscribers again. If people need incentives to do 25 man, they obviously dont like it, but are just lootwhores.
    You mean like in Wrath when subs were the highest the game has ever been.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Nah, it's not easier. More people means more chances to screw up.
    It also means less responsibility per person. One dps not pulling their weight can be easily counter weighted by the other dps.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyersing View Post
    With respect to healers, 25-mans only have 250% more raiders than 10-mans, yet they variably have 200-300% as many healers. If you're group is running absolute minimum healers, you're going to have a harder time with healing from a numbers perspective; if your group is running with either typical or maximum number of healers the requisite numbers will be either the same or easier than 10-man difficulty. But the necessary number-pulling notwithstanding, that doesn't account for difficulties associated with timing and/or luls in activity (easier for 6 healers to handle tank spike damage than it is for 3, etc. etc.).

    Healer Summary: The average 25-man guild will have a much easier time healing than the average 10-man guild; whereas the 'hardcore' 25-man guild will magic have it slightly harder than the 10-man guild -- note, however, that the gap between the former and the latter reflect bringing 6 healers (former) and 4 healers (latter) meaning there is potential for both to slide to that magic number 5 which makes healing directly proportional to raid size when compared to 10-man.
    Your deliberately leaving out the fact that pretty much all abilities from bosses do MORE raid damage to MORE people in 25M raids. It's not the same amount of damage to heal back. It's more, in which sometimes that extra damage can 2-shot a tank, where in 10M it's not the same.

    Not to mention the fact that in 25M more people need to learn special assignments during the fight (more melee to learn how to "dance" @ Will of the Emperor, more setting up groups for soaking @ Ultraxion HC which you had to have special classes in those 3 groups that could take the 300k hit with cooldowns).

    They simply can't be compared. Every time we went 10M as a guild (we mainly raid 25M) for fun and giggles (during holidays, for example, when 25M raid is on break for us) we ALWAYS had an easier time in 10M than 25M. The last tier I remember being harder on 10M was T11. Anything else is a joke, maybe because we're more experienced, dunno...
    Educate the community: X-Perl is dead. Stop using it!

  4. #144
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    It also means less responsibility per person. One dps not pulling their weight can be easily counter weighted by the other dps.
    The fun times of carrying people....or the fun times of running a 25 man and -still- not being able to find a shaman.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  5. #145
    Pleeeeeeease bring this to European realms!

  6. #146
    Scarab Lord Howard Moon's Avatar
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    YES!!!! if this comes to EU realms, it might even bring me back to WoW.
    My Gaming Setup | WoW Paladin (retired)

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  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Racthoh View Post
    i think you mean the 25 man raider gets to do more dps.
    No, I meant what I said, do the numbers yourself if you don't believe me...

  8. #148
    I don't know if I would stay with the game if this change went through on US servers.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Or just get rid of 10 and 25 mans and introduce 15 mans to level the playing field and end this bullshit.
    15 is just as lame as 10. I want 25 man to be recognized as the real raiding as it used to be in TBC.

  10. #150
    I hope it doesnt go a head i love my 10m raiding... I dont want to be forced into 25m raiding again
    "Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable."
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  11. #151
    If it was by me i'll remove both 10 and 25 man raids and make only 40 mans.
    They went from 40 man raids back in vanilla to 10 man today, i mean whats next 5 man raids ? Come on..

  12. #152
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    15 is just as lame as 10. I want 25 man to be recognized as the real raiding as it used to be in TBC.
    Yeah? You could say the same thing of 40 mans. Doesn't change the fact that both are a hassle to organise and maintain.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The fun times of carrying people....or the fun times of running a 25 man and -still- not being able to find a shaman.
    Excluding the top guilds, almost ever guild has a carry to a certain extent. We can't find a warlock like you can't find a shaman, it's awful.

    Also, The Golden Pagoda sounded like a Chinese food restaurant to me.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0n3 View Post
    If it was by me i'll remove both 10 and 25 man raids and make only 40 mans.
    They went from 40 man raids back in vanilla to 10 man today, i mean whats next 5 man raids ? Come on..
    Thankfully it isn't you. I still have ulcers from ZG.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonrisa View Post
    No, I meant what I said, do the numbers yourself if you don't believe me...
    basically it's not hard to pve dps. if the "requirements" are higher, than there is obviously more opportunity to sit there and dps than in 10s.
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    The short answer is nope, the long answer is noooooooooooooooope.

  16. #156
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmeh View Post
    Excluding the top guilds, almost ever guild has a carry to a certain extent. We can't find a warlock like you can't find a shaman, it's awful.

    Also, The Golden Pagoda sounded like a Chinese food restaurant to me.
    It's worse than that Jim, this was in the day when Mages didn't have Time Warp. Some fights were brutal without Heroism.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  17. #157
    Mechagnome nightguard's Avatar
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    Please tell me ppl noticed it said on KOREaN servers. Meaning eu and us and the third are all still shafted on this.

  18. #158
    I think it will only be a matter of time till this comes to US servers

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    It's worse than that Jim, this was in the day when Mages didn't have Time Warp. Some fights were brutal without Heroism.
    Yeah... Yeah they were. We had a bunch of those nights in ICC.

  20. #160
    this isn't going to work, neither people will complain about KR player getting world firsts, or people will demand this change on US servers...

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