1. #1

    Help me analyze the dps of two of my warlocks

    I need a little help from the warlock community. I run two warlocks in my 25m progression raid (2/6H). I almost feel both of them are missing something in their rotation or are not taking advantage of increased dps opportunities during our raids. Both locks are consistently toward the bottom of our meters and I feel like they should be pulling more damage at their current item level (477 and 476).

    When I run them through SimCraft, it tells me that on average they should be doing 77999 (min = 71107, max = 87051)

    Can any of you help me by taking a look at our logs and providing feedback on how to help them?

    These are our logs from last night after killing the first two heroic MV bosses. We are currently working on H Spiritbinder.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...s=9663&e=10128

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    Haven't looked at the logs, but the logs don't record in the spirit realm if noone is logging there. Just fyi.

    After a quick glance they both seem to be playing demo. Might want them to give Affliction a try. Probably easier for them to play.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by sharkee View Post
    Haven't looked at the logs, but the logs don't record in the spirit realm if noone is logging there. Just fyi.

    After a quick glance they both seem to be playing demo. Might want them to give Affliction a try. Probably easier for them to play.
    They played demo for heroic stone guard and switched to affliction for heroic Feng. I know it would be extremely hard to analyze their dps on spiritbinder, but I was hoping the heroic feng kill would be sufficient for an analysis.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    Sorry got the names mixed up.

    Both seem to have pretty bad dot uptimes. Aoe for Aff ain't fantastic compared to other classes. But SB:Seed should help with shard regen as well as draining adds for Shard returns.

    I haven't done Feng HC myself so I'm not the best person to comment on this, but that seemed to stand out a bit.

  5. #5
    It would help to know in which order you kill the phases.

  6. #6
    Blademaster
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    i've taken a look over that log, concerning the Feng HC kill ( lasting 7:44).

    @kellanved: his dot uptimes are a bit low for affliction ( BoA 92.7%, UA 85.4%, Corr 89.3%). Normally, these should be over 95% atleast ( or that is what i would consider a proper % margin for Aff), while his MG usage is plain awful - 22%

    @bwonsamdi : BoA (98.7%) and UA (95.5%) are ok as uptimes, while his Corr (89.3%) could use some work on being higher. His MG looks fine at 50.5% uptime

    The way to go for Aff is to have as high of an uptime as possible on the 3 dots and channeling MG and nothing else on the target if there's a Haunt up.
    bwonsamdi's haunt uptime was 58.5%, while kellanved's was 70.6%. If they're doing something else while haunt is active on their target ( i.e. recasting dots) instead of MGing, it's a dps loss.
    They should also try to stack as many buffs before refreshing dots. When refreshing with a buckload of buffs, they should use SB:SS and towards the end, when one or more buffs would drop off, hard-refresh them for a maximal duration.

    Unfortunately, i cannot provide any logs of a similar encounter ( barely starting HCs this week in my 25m guild), but, if any consolation would come from any normal logs, i can provide those and say that, atleast on a normal Feng kill, back at 468 ilvl, i was pulling 69.4k dps on the kill.

    While i understand there's no way to compare normal to HC difficulties, seeing as how there's aoe involved on HC, only by that standard, their DPS should be more than what a normal kill would presume ( going by a default logic of common sense)

    I don't know how much basis you can put into Simcraft, it depends on how you configure it ( if that number is based on a patchwerk-style fight, atleast comparing it to Feng, it's inaccurate, mainly because of the boss's epicenter + adds that spawn during the encounter + movement involved in wild-spark phases or arcane debuffs)

    As a last tip for your warlocks under scrutiny, have them refresh dots right before an epicenter ( if dots fall off during that, it's near impossible to re-dot with 75% hit less), have them focus the boss during the aoe phases and never ever ever let dots fall off ( especially BoA)

    Hope this helps, atleast a bit, if not, you can wait feedback from someone that has actually tried/killed the encounter.

    Best of luck with Spiritbinder HC!

    Edit 1: I have no idea how the order in which he takes possession of weapons affects the fight on HC so, yeah, best to wait for a proper reply on that part.

    Edit 2: @ kellanved's armory : one of his head tinker watchamacallem sockets is 600 crit, while the other is 600 hit. crit is useless for affliction, and you don't socket for hit... EVER . Have him replace both of them with mastery and haste gems with 600 rating.
    Last edited by Vexeer; 2012-10-24 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #7
    On last progress night my guild almost killed Feng Hc 25 (19%/last try), I was playing Demonology and I was topping meters it's really good for adds phase.

    Dunno how it's your tactic but we start with Arcane Phase, on this phase demo locks are pretty weak but after demo locks will top meters, since adds phase will give you tons of dps.

    On stone guards one of your lock didn't do so bad tbh, 128k isn't bad tbh, but your dpsers are monsters loool, since some of your raiders are ranking top 10-20.

    But yeah on this fight both specs are viable(Affliction/ Demonology) on Stone Hc I went for Affliction and I did around 150k. But Demonology it's very good aswell.

    Have in mind that on this fight ranged classes have a hard task to do, tillers and run into melee when the are chained.

    On this fight if your melee squad it's good they will top meters easyly. Besides combat rogues are beasts on this encounter.


    About Gara'jal, affliction warlocks are masters here, if they're on bottom they are doing something wrong.

    They need to work on their uptimes on dots, they got around 60-75% and that it's really bad. 90-95% it's a good thing. But with pandemic isn't hard to have 100% uptime. Since you don't need anymore to refresh your dots at the last tick.

    And tell them to NEVER LET AGONy FADE OFF! It's a huge dps lose!

  8. #8
    Mechagnome helheim's Avatar
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    tell them to stop getting hit by lightning fist on feng. get rid of dark bargain if they are running gosac, and take soul link instead. harvest life is shit compared to dark regen, and it helps out healers... win/win. should spend more time channeling MG as aff, for more dot uptime. pre-pot on the pull, and use another on lust, will also improve #s.

    i also dont see any real reason to take mannoroths fury over kjc on the encounters where you got kills. not exactly a lot of aoe going on there, seems like a wasted talent. archimondes vengences accounting for less than 1% of their damage done would have me taking KJC instead, esp on fights with moderate/heavy movement.

    dark bargain is meh, prevents damage and all but gives them a nice dot to tick on them after they stood in purple/blue shit. saw one of the warlocks died on stone guard with only 80% active time. not gonna go thru the log to see why, but well timed use of personal cds typically keep me alive longer than the tanks, when i'm raiding, and we're wiping, i'm usually the last to die.

    kellanved <-- reforge could use some work.

    get rid of brewfest trinkets and replace them with heroic blue ones instead, that thing is pretty shitty.

    my 2c.

  9. #9
    Small world, I was looking at apping...

    The uptime thing is important, but overrated. Agony is the only one which needs to be always on - improving uptimes on UA and Corruption isn't going to improve their DPS by more than a few percent, at which point they'd still be underperforming.

    To start, Kellan's opener is just flat out wrong:
    [23:10:43.621] Kellanved casts Potion of the Jade Serpent
    [23:10:45.174] Kellanved casts Dark Soul: Misery
    [23:10:45.194] Kellanved casts Blood Fury
    [23:10:45.485] Kellanved begins to cast Haunt
    [23:10:46.749] Kellanved casts Soulburn
    [23:10:46.749] Kellanved casts Soul Swap on Feng the Accursed
    [23:10:47.962] Kellanved casts Summon Doomguard on Feng the Accursed
    [23:10:49.298] Kellanved casts Demonic Circle: Summon on Demonic Circle: Summon
    [23:10:50.259] Kellanved casts Malefic Grasp on Feng the Accursed
    [23:10:52.916] Kellanved begins to cast Haunt

    Also, he forgot to Sacrifice before pull. Happens to everyone, but it affects DPS, obviously.

    There are sequences that look like this:
    [23:13:25.818] Kellanved begins to cast Haunt
    [23:13:27.125] Kellanved begins to cast Haunt
    [23:13:28.407] Kellanved casts Agony on Feng the Accursed
    [23:13:29.709] Kellanved casts Malefic Grasp on Feng the Accursed
    [23:13:32.920] Kellanved begins to cast Unstable Affliction
    [23:13:34.238] Kellanved casts Corruption on Feng the Accursed
    [23:13:35.530] Kellanved casts Drain Soul on Feng the Accursed

    Essentially, the keys to playing Affliction are maximizing buffs on DoTs, maximizing MG time while Haunt is up, and not wasting shards.

    Is there any reason they switched to Affliction? If they play Demo normally, Feng is a fine fight for the spec.

  10. #10
    Field Marshal
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    I play affliction on every fight. ESPECIALLY stone guard, double dipping on the dots I destroy the meters. Not sure why so many people think demo is so good, as affliction nobody can touch my damage. Also unless you have a good geared mage, the locks should be topping the meters on every fight, we are that strong right now. Looks like you might need a better lock in your group. With all the changes recently, the gap between a skilled lock and a bad one is much more noticeable.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Aeiri's Avatar
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    Stats

    Kellanved
    Awkward Haste level. Sitting shy of a haste breakpoint. Would suggest increasing to it or dropping haste down to a previous one.
    Needs to try to get more mastery as well. Bracers are unenchanted and missing mastery there as well.


    Bwonsamdi

    Alot of haste. No relevant breakpoint at his level. I would suggest dropping it back off down to 4717 in favor of more mastery if possible.
    Also missing belt buckle.

    Notes: All stat changes should be simmed and plotted for a final say. I also did not check every individual piece of gear to see
    if it actually possible to reforge into more mastery/etc.


    DoT Uptime

    Kellanved
    Decent uptime save corruption. Try to keep it up more.

    Bwonsamdi
    Low uptimes all around. This is what should change first.
    Agony is sitting at 92.7% while UA and Corruption are 85% and 89%.

    For example Kellanved has 40 more UA ticks despite having less haste.


    Damage Distribution

    Feng

    Pretty low. Affliction locks should by no means be bottoming meters on the boss here as they can keep dots rolling on him
    while they AOE fragments, and they are really good single target regardless.

    Kellanved also has MANY more drain soul ticks compared to Bwonsamdi. This might be caused by improper handling of Haunts/Dots in the last phase, but I believe
    its probably just channeling Malefic Grasp instead because the difference is rather large.

    After looking, despite having more drain soul ticks, Kellanved is not using Soulburn to reapply dots sub 20%, which he should look into doing.

    Soul Fragments

    Decent.Lets face it, aff locks are not going to wreck the meters here compared to other classes, but there is a 1 million
    damage difference between your two locks which is almost entirely harvest life output. Other than that its about the same spell for spell.




    All in all their total active time on boss is pretty good, so I am going to assume its the tiny things logs won't point out, combined
    with the things listed above that is leading to their dps. Without watching their POV it is hard to see from logs what the problem might be.

    I am going to assume its just downtime management. Moving only as needed, keeping maximum dps output at all time even when moving, etc.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Explosions View Post
    I play affliction on every fight. ESPECIALLY stone guard, double dipping on the dots I destroy the meters. Not sure why so many people think demo is so good, as affliction nobody can touch my damage. Also unless you have a good geared mage, the locks should be topping the meters on every fight, we are that strong right now. Looks like you might need a better lock in your group. With all the changes recently, the gap between a skilled lock and a bad one is much more noticeable.
    I'm not sure how flexible you are on 25m but at least on 10m it's much better to have a demo lock on tile duty and your dps loss is much lower. It's also possible that you're able to keep a pair of dogs together for much longer on 25 man than you are on 10 but on 10 man you have a pretty high chance for one of those dogs not to benefit from the full up time of all of your DoTs. I find that combining that with the dps my pet and instants can do while dropping tiles more than makes up for anything affliction can bring.
    Gamer, Nerd, Physicist. What more could you want?! Well fine, I have a youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/shaidyadvice and a stream: www.twitch.tv/shaidyadvice I'm currently spending my free time with the fine fellows and ladies over at Death and Taxes.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyronic View Post
    It would help to know in which order you kill the phases.
    Arcane - Shield - Fist - Fire

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-24 at 07:24 PM ----------

    I just got home from work and just started digesting this information. Thank you very much for the in-depth analyses each of you have written up. I really appreciate the feedback. I will share this with them and hopefully your advice will help them become more competitive warlocks.
    Last edited by Mercone; 2012-10-24 at 07:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercone View Post
    Arcane - Shield - Fist - Fire

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-24 at 07:24 PM ----------

    I just got home from work and just started digesting this information. Thank you very much for the in-depth analyses each of you have written up. I really appreciate the feedback. I will share this with them and hopefully your advice will help them become more competitive warlocks.


    on garajal heroic i was looking at their burst.

    im level 472 bursting 240k on logs.

    they are only getting to 150-200k on their logs. this usually means they dont know what they are doing. bad players/bad warlocks.
    they should check out wowraids.org and read all of the forums pages in this warlock forum.

  15. #15
    im not sure how you guys are doing shadow phase here but the soc damage from both your warlocks is abysmal. Normally what i do is time a sb:soc to blow up on boss as soon as the adds spawn and tab thru seeding the individual adds then go back to boss keeping full dots on him and soc'ing off him.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by conz View Post
    im not sure how you guys are doing shadow phase here but the soc damage from both your warlocks is abysmal. Normally what i do is time a sb:soc to blow up on boss as soon as the adds spawn and tab thru seeding the individual adds then go back to boss keeping full dots on him and soc'ing off him.
    Yeah I suspected several issues were occurring on multiple fights.

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