Separate 10 and 25 Man Raid Lockout and Reward Changes in Korea

[Faldric]

anyone who thinks 10's are easier never did sinestra 10.

anyone who thinks 25's are easier never did ragnaros 25.

picking out one fight proofs nothing.

[yuareapirate]

Man,i hope this change comes to EU/US

[Moradim]

anyone who thinks 25's are easier never did ragnaros 25.

picking out one fight proofs nothing.

it's all relative, some fights are easier in 10, some are easier in 25.

still no reason 10's should get lesser rewards for the same content.

[Rivyr]

I think the that 25 man raids could have a higher item level but make the 10 man raids have gear that can be upgraded through the spending of valor just like they intend to do.

so the perk of raiding 25 man is not haveing to upgrade your gear vs 10 mans haveing the option to upgrade if they want to be competative with the 25 man players

[Nickblitz]

Why do blizz need to test something that was implemented throughout most of WOTLK?

[Hrothgarzon15]

ITEM EQUALIZATION IN 10 MAN


- That is all

[Unarmed1000]

25man should get no other perks than more loot drops. Raid size should be about preference and not about getting better items!

[kosechi]

10's get lower ilvl gear? stupid. anyone who thinks 10's are easier never did sinestra 10.

it was so much more mindless on 10, totally more room to tank and kill welps, more room to run cutters with out hitting your tunnel visioning hunter who wouldn't move. less wrack to deal with.

10s raiders need to get over themselves.

[Socialhealer]

so basically we have to ignore any world firsts by korean guilds....outgearing the rest of the world by 8 ilvls because of where you live does not equal skill.

[Marooned]

I think best would be shared lockout but better reward in 25 man so ppl are not obligated to do both

[absolute]

Lol @ your distorted view of raid difficulty. Just off the top of my head I can name two Cata bosses that were significantly more difficult on 10 man. Halfus & Deathwing. Both were statistically killed more on 25 than 10, pre nerf. But so what.

That's not even the point. 10 mans, when tuned properly, are just as difficult as 25s. It all comes down to tuning. here's why.

-1 battle rez, vs. 3 in 25 man
-Higher chance of missing buffs (although less likely to be an issue these days)
-Losing one player is 10% of your raid in 10 man, and is often unrecoverable if they cannot be revived. This is NOT an issue in 25 man, and you often see progression kills done with 1-2 players down. 1 player in 25 is only 2.5% of your raid, and as long as its not the tank, you're probably okay. An acceptable loss if you will.
-If you're really struggling more in 25 than 10, it's often due to unnoticed slacking on the part of one or more of your other players. If you're carrying 2-3 players in 25 man, you can often pull through with excellent other players picking up the slack. That's nearly impossible for 10 man -- everyone has to pull their weight.

Apples to apples (all players in the raid pulling their weight), then it all comes down to tuning.

Source: Many years and countless hours (all of WotLK & Cata) as a top 20 US tank in 25 man. Hohn @ Spirestone-US

At first I thought you were trolling, but you seem pretty serious to me, so allow me to correct you.

Halfus was not harder on 10man heroic than it was in 25, that's just regurgitating the then competing guild Ensidia as they chose to kill it in that format to edge ahead. Having killed both at an early stage of Cata, the requisite was geared tanks, as it was 25.
There was also excrement flying around about Nef and Sinestra being more/as difficult on 10. Healers getting orbs on 25 was just as likely to wipe you as healers getting orbs on 10, again I have experience of early kills in both formats. Nefarian was simply that 10man tanks didn't feel it prudent to cap their hit so they could assist with interrupts... such is the quality of the average 10man raider these days.

Deathwing just baffles me, I don't know what to say. It was a terrible fight in both formats and neither cried out as being more difficult than the other.

And onto your/his points:-

-1 battle rez as opposed to 3 is a decent tradeoff for how much easier it is to avoid abilities under various dynamics in 10man with greater space and less clutter.
-I lol'd at your buff point, as it wasn't really a point.
-Your third point is testament to how utterly ignorant and clueless you are of what 25man higher tier raiding is like. Losing 1 player in 25man is just as likely to prevent you from killing a boss as losing 1 in 10man, and losing 1 in 10man is is a feat in itself.
-Quoting someone who has been in a 25man guild with no basis nor context shows you up even further, as there are plenty who have raided both formats at a very high level and totally and utterly disagree with yours/his sentiments.

This is obviously foregoing the enormous leap in logistical requirements in running a 25man guild over a 10, and execution requirements in getting 25 people to move/perform in tandem. This is what raiding is, the difficulty of cohesive and synchronised play between alot of people sitting behind their game clients. Whereas 10man feels like Dreadmist farming in old Stratholme, or an extended 5man dungeon.

You are right only in that Cataclysm was the closest they have gotten in terms of balancing difficulty between formats, but still some way off, mainly because it's just impossible to do so unless they want to consume 6 months of developer time and testing on PTR. So i'm afraid still to this day, the only 10man encounter that was ever 'harder' on 10man than in 25, artificially or otherwise, was Sartharion 3 drakes.

Most people know this, the ones that are blissfully ignorant don't annoy me, it's the ones that argue for the sake of making themselves feel better when facts point to the contrary that rile me.

[Spotnick]

Why do blizz need to test something that was implemented throughout most of WOTLK?

Because nothing said they would nerf 10 man to make them trivial like they were in WOTLK.

[Jazirian]

Why do blizz need to test something that was implemented throughout most of WOTLK?

What makes you think they're testing this? They're implementing this to make Korean / Asian players pay more. This isn't a test for EU/US realms.

[Kukuun]

Sure do not hope this goes live, and hopefully not in EU/US at all.

[XingoJenkins]

As some of the players commented, 10-man players will be forced to raid 25-man.

But why?
Because you, a 10-man player, feel inferior to those who raid 25-man. LFR is mandatory to the most of guilds that seek progression through the content, and 25-man raids will turn mandatory too, since it's superior gear and will help in 10-man progression better than the 10-man gear itself.

I remember the day back in WoTLK when I needed to raid 25-man to get the BiS Deathbringer's Will just to be top dps in my 10-man group for ICC. So I was raiding 25-man till get better gear than the 10-man version just... to clean 10-man version! I can't see any logic here.

WotLK ICC 25-man = Easy bosses till Deathbringer (Valithria and Festergut maybe). Almost free loot for everyone. Better ilvl, stronger than 10-man. So, following this logic, the first wing of ICC 10-man was almost useless.

I'm not against 25-man group, but I feel forced to do it, since my gear is upgradable to the 25-man version and this could help me in my 10-man group. Lot of guilds don't have 25-man, or they are just a bunch of friends that want to have a progress through the content, and 25-man gear will be not optional, since Better loot = Easier/faster/stronger...

In my opinion, I think 25-man is easier than 10-man, since 10-man feels the lost of a healer, for example, more than a 25-man group. I don't know, it's my thoughts.

And please, don't flame.

[Aoyi]

anyone who thinks 25's are easier never did ragnaros 25.

picking out one fight proofs nothing.

The truth is some fights are harder on 10 and some fights are harder on 25. Even the current tier. I raid both 10 and 25, but I don't want to do them both in the same week again. WotLK was terrible for that. Especially during ToC when we were running 4 lockouts. This will lock Korea out of world rankings as it will no longer be an even playing field when tier 15 comes out if the higher item level thing goes through. I just hope this doesn't happen to US/EU servers.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I don't ever want to see an additional benefit from 25mans again, I absolutely hate 25mans having better loot. I do not like 25mans, never have. I do not have the patience to deal with people in 25mans. It is something very terrible that they finally moved away from at the start of cata.

[Angarin]

This shit better come to us and eu or blizzard is gonna lose more subs than they ever did before.

This is considerably favoring. Who cares if they're more hardcore or not. We've been competing with korea (us/eu) since we possibly could.

Stupid change to make for korea only blizzard. Your really screwin world first race over too

[lyxx]

Looks like KR guild need handicap again to compete in the top world kills - way to go Blizzard, way to go...

[Moogabe]

this is actual discrmination against us why only korea doesnt the rest of the world deserve this as well.