whats going on , my healing has never been this low?

[Holofernes]

i'm pretty sure holofernes is just a troll. with gear as it is now 10 and 25 man priorities are the same.

int~=spirit>haste 871 > mastery 50% > crit


for everything else, look up guides and practice in lfr

Pls stop calling better informed people troll.

Stat Healing increase for 100 units
Spellpower 0.53%
Crit (Single target) 0.675%
Crit (Non-single target) 0.464%
Haste 0.65%
Mastery at 20% Deficit 0.3%
Mastery at 50% Deficit 0.692%
Mastery at 80% Deficit 1%
Haste threshold for 1st extra hot tick 12.5%

Table for restoshaman healing throughput gain values from 100 stat increase, out of http://plusheal.com/forum/m/1833799/...afting-for-mop.

So lets correct shammypies wrong , non founded assumptions and say:

For more throughput:

Spirit (basically as long as u are not casting healing rain and healingsurge with every single global cd, or if more realistically, you find yourelf in a situation where u could use a higher hps spell, but dont use it due to mana management reasons)
> Haste (first breakpoint)
> Mastery
> Crit /haste_after_breakpoint (very close in throughput, depends on regen. for regen reason i tend to say crit wins at this phase of mop)

and the last, worst and most useless stat of all:
spellpower, aka Int.

So if u use one int gem when u could use one mastery gem instead, u loose 160 mastery points and trade 160 mastery points having a relative value of 1 vs 160 int points having a relative value of 0,53.

Effectively, u gimped your shaman by 75 % in this one socket.

I hope i could explain clear enough to all those who had difficulties understanding what the guides, and the numbers in them, tell.

To verify, check my sources, or check for example holypaladin guide in this very forum.

[Madhoof]

So if u use one int gem when u could use one mastery gem instead, u loose 160 mastery points and trade 160 mastery points having a relative value of 1 vs 160 int points having a relative value of 0,53.

Effectively, u gimped your shaman by 75 % in this one socket.

Assuming your target is at max. 20% HP, which can make sense or not.

And: why is 0,53 vs 1,0 a difference of 75%?

[Holofernes]

well a int socket comes with 160 points. and a mastery socket with 320 , meaning 0.53 *1.6 vs 1*3,2
and yep it would be roundabout 75 % if raid is at 20 % hp.
it would still be 67% at 50% hp. it would be 42 % at 80% hp.

so no matter wich condition or which stat, pure int is never the best solution for any socket or any socket bonus.

[Deleted]

Pls stop calling better informed people troll.

Stat Healing increase for 100 units
Spellpower 0.53%
Crit (Single target) 0.675%
Crit (Non-single target) 0.464%
Haste 0.65%
Mastery at 20% Deficit 0.3%
Mastery at 50% Deficit 0.692%
Mastery at 80% Deficit 1%
Haste threshold for 1st extra hot tick 12.5%

Table for restoshaman healing throughput gain values from 100 stat increase, out of http://plusheal.com/forum/m/1833799/...afting-for-mop.

So lets correct shammypies wrong , non founded assumptions and say:

For more throughput:

Spirit (basically as long as u are not casting healing rain and healingsurge with every single global cd, or if more realistically, you find yourelf in a situation where u could use a higher hps spell, but dont use it due to mana management reasons)
> Haste (first breakpoint)
> Mastery
> Crit /haste_after_breakpoint (very close in throughput, depends on regen. for regen reason i tend to say crit wins at this phase of mop)

Spellpower is gone since Cata. Intellect provides Crit aswell and even if it's a little amount it's still a healing increase.
Spirit isn't, and it has never been, a throughput stat; it's, instead, a mana regen stat.

and the last, worst and most useless stat of all:
spellpower, aka Int.

So if u use one int gem when u could use one mastery gem instead, u loose 160 mastery points and trade 160 mastery points having a relative value of 1 vs 160 int points having a relative value of 0,53.

Effectively, u gimped your shaman by 75 % in this one socket.

I hope i could explain clear enough to all those who had difficulties understanding what the guides, and the numbers in them, tell.

To verify, check my sources, or check for example holypaladin guide in this very forum.

160 intellect provide 0.848% more healing while 320 mastery provide from 0.960% to 3.168% more healing. The time you spend healing people at 20% health is way inferior than the time you spend healing people at 50% or more so let's say you are trading 2% more healing from mastery for 0.848% more healing from intellect. That's 57% less healing from one socket. At least if I'm doing math right

As for stats:
Stat Healing increase for 100 units
Spellpower 0.53% -> It misses a bit of crit rating
Crit (Single target) 0.675% -> Depending on fight but usually we are not single target healers
Crit (Non-single target) 0.464%
Haste 0.65%
Mastery at 20% Deficit 0.3% ->Usually you spend the majority of the time healing in this situation
Mastery at 50% Deficit 0.692% -> " " " "
Mastery at 80% Deficit 1%
Haste threshold for 1st extra hot tick 12.5%


So we have 0.53% for SP, 0.5% ((0.3%+0.692%)/2) for mastery, 0.65% for haste and 0.57% ((0.464+0.675)/2) for crit.

I still don't see:
- spirit: remember? mana regen stat
- how intellect is so far worse than other stats (assuming these numbers are correct). Also why don't you take more than this guide to support your statements? I'd like to see what EJ or IcyVeins or other guides say (I already know fyi).

[Holofernes]

actually if u would read the sources of the numbers in ej guide.... u would come to the post i have linked.
Icy veins is a cool graphixs site with okish facits for casuals. It still recommends assa rogues to go expertice cap over mastery, for example.

and im not here to disaprove your math.

I just ask one question, and make one calculation.

160 intellect provide 0.848% more healing. Where does this come from?

i have 25 k addheal. for me, 160 int means i get 25,160 k addheal. that means, if 1 addheal % = 1 healing done %, than it would be a factor of 1,0064. or 6,5 promille.it is not that way, it is even less, as spellpower coefficents are involved.

320 mastery is up to 0,53% (320 / (600 mastery = 1% more healing if target = low) 0,53 % So that is actually a nearly 10 fold difference.

yea i know, i didnt include kings and mail bonus for the calculation, but it doesn really matter if its 1,0064 or 1,00704. its still 2 magnitudes.

I dont like numbercrunching, im a scientist as professionial, and we work with our heads to understand the underlying phenomen first, and then do the numbers.

to remember: healing spells work after following scheme:

High base heal + (spellpower *spellpower coefficiant), afterwards haste , crit , mastery get applied.

Spellpower part is smaller than baseheal (as long as spellpower doesnt reach absurde high values), spellpower coefficant is for every healing spell i know smaller than 1. This can be checked / falsificated if u want at wowhead, or u could use any of the healingspreadsheets out there.

so mathematically, with spellpower aka int, u are adressing a part of the formula, thats at the smaller half of the additive component, while u could adress the multiplicative component by using secondary stats for throughput.

Just from this thinking process from watching the formula, u can realize that spellpower is a weak pull on the lever.

Awkwardly, this also indicates, the more int u have, the less impact on the end outcome it gets, as baseheal is a fixum, and spellpower coefficiant too.

Contrary, Secondary stats always add the same value to your heals, and they add it multplicatively.

But this all this thinking about int vs x is worth nothing if u could cast a not overhealing healingsurge (average heal 90 k in 1,3seconds) instead of a healing wave (average heal 45 k in 1,6 seconds) because u cant afford it due to regen issues.

Thats why i state regen is the best throughput stat. a shaman spamming hs like mad with 20 k int will heal way more than a shaman spamming healing wave with 30 k int. I hope u dont need a calculation to accept that.

[shammypie]

Thats why i state regen is the best throughput stat. a shaman spamming hs like mad with 20 k int will heal way more than a shaman spamming healing wave with 30 k int. I hope u dont need a calculation to accept that.

So adding intellect has a negative effect on how much i heal? i think you need to modify this to include the spirit difference and then show this into exact mp5. Especially considering this throuhput gain has an exponential decay until becoming negative.

what realm/name is your resto shaman i'm curious.

[Holofernes]

adding intellect is not negative , its just weaker than adding other stats. adding intellect in stead of haste crit mastery is negative hps in almost all circumstances. The same goes for every other healing class. u can for example check the holy paladin guide in this forum.

Each stat affects our heals in a different manner. Intellect is our primary stat and generally the strongest stat that we have. The secondary stats, Spirit, Mastery, Haste, and Critical Chance, all have different manner of affecting our heals and are valued different because of it. Spirit has become extremely more important since the MoP patch dropped. I advise gearing towards maximum possible Spirit.

I'm not good at the whole theorycrafting thing, so I'm going to provide numbers from this posts:

100 Mastery Rating: 0.00837 / (1+0.1995) = 0.00698, about 0.7% relative healing increase.
100 Crit Rating: 0.005568 / (1+0.1535) = 0.0048, about 0.48% relative healing increase.
100 Haste Rating: 0.0078 / (1+0.144) = 0.0068, about 0.68% relative hps increase.
100 Spellpower: 100 / (10180 + 9000) = 0.0052, about 0.52% relative healing increase.

These numbers do have one issue with them. They are missing the math for the inclusion of raid buffs, and since Haste adds multiplicatively that likely lowers the value of Haste in this post. If done with full buffs, Haste should be on top for straight throughput.
Haste and Mastery are extremely close here, but the big difference is that Mastery is more mana friendly. Where Haste increases throughput by letting us cast more spells which costs more mana, Mastery adds a "free" bubble to our heals. For this reason, I follow the stats weights:

Based on how mana has been since the MoP patch was introduced, I think that Spirit and mana regen are going to be much bigger concerns than aiming for Intellect. Because of this, my personal stat priorities for MoP are:

Spirit> Intellect> Mastery> Haste> Crit

I think that I should also mention that for straight throughput, the stat priorities will still prioritize Intellect at the top and Haste above all other secondary stats. This is only in cases where you are aiming for max possible burst healing though. In all other situations I would advise sticking with the above stat priority.

In this GUIDE for holy paladins u see a guidewriter having the possibly most right numbers from theorycrafters (they are from adinne too, who is an awsome theorycrafter for 5 or more years or so), and pulling the wrong assumptions. The numbers say, spellpower is weaker than mastery or haste. but he comes to the conclusion, that for him, the statpriority is spirit , int (AKA spellpower) mastery haste.

I find it funny, and i just cant follow the reasoning. The values are there, the reasoning how this values arise is known (high spellpower values, low spellpower coefficients) and still people are not following their own findings.

My own Shaman is http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...Caró/advanced

and i would love to have 2 k or so more spirit, and i am looking forward to the spirit trinket from will of the emporer.

[Mavalynn]

I think my head just exploded! *picks up the pieces*

I really don't think I need all that math stuff to know that too much of any stat isn't a good thing. Too much spirit (which I believe is the case with the OP) means that your spells aren't hitting as hard as they could, which means...yeah, you're going to have to have more regen to support healing more. You're having to work harder to heal the same. And the opposite is just as counter-productive, if you're stacking nothing but throughput stats, you're not going to have enough regen to support lasting the entire encounter. That's not rocket science, despite how complicated you guys are making it.

If I end a fight with a lot of mana to spare, then it doesn't matter how heavily weighted spirit is, it's wasted and I'd rather have any other stat. If my raid sits at low hp for most of an encounter, I'll shoot for some extra mastery. If we're further into progression and most of my raid is sitting at near full hp, then I'm not going to value mastery at all. If I'm close to the next haste breakpoint, I'll get some extra haste. The point I'm trying to make is, I don't care about your math formulas, I am smart enough to understand the value and relationship between all the stats and make an educated determination as to what stat is important for me at any given point.

These posts have completely derailed and overcomplicated the OP's original question.

[Holofernes]

haha yep thats true, im sorry. i said it before, and someone called me troll and some other guy made numbers up without and it went on. sry for that.

what will help the op is: (i wrote it upwards somewhere too) is following:

try to use cds more often (as often in the 6 or 7 minute timer of an encounter is possible, try to guess fight lenght and when u will use them in which order before the fight), try to get a little bit more throughput if u feel u have enough regen. For 25 man healing, use more healing rain, and try to line it up with unleash as often as possible. Dont hesitate to pop those healing totems, or slt or acendance, if its ready, and the raid is not full (which wont happen at stoneguard hc), use it.

the 2nd step is : use socket bonus, they add up. i use spirit for blue, int/spirit or int /mastery for red, and spirit /mastery for yellow.

(or int/mastery as i have in one gem in my shaman, but thats because i felt comfortable with reg back than, i had like 12 k spirit, now it dropped under 10 k and i have to watch on hc trys carefully, and because im a cata used player too, and pure mastery gems felt odd to me back than, but after upgrading my weapon from blue to 489 i investigated why so much more spellpower did so little, i startet to do some deeper theory wich resulted in the recognision of the above mentioned results)

[shammypie]

adding intellect is not negative , its just weaker than adding other stats. adding intellect in stead of haste crit mastery is negative hps in almost all circumstances. The same goes for every other healing class. u can for example check the holy paladin guide in this forum.



In this GUIDE for holy paladins u see a guidewriter having the possibly most right numbers from theorycrafters (they are from adinne too, who is an awsome theorycrafter for 5 or more years or so), and pulling the wrong assumptions. The numbers say, spellpower is weaker than mastery or haste. but he comes to the conclusion, that for him, the statpriority is spirit , int (AKA spellpower) mastery haste.

I find it funny, and i just cant follow the reasoning. The values are there, the reasoning how this values arise is known (high spellpower values, low spellpower coefficients) and still people are not following their own findings.

My own Shaman is http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...Caró/advanced

and i would love to have 2 k or so more spirit, and i am looking forward to the spirit trinket from will of the emporer.

Holofernes the reason why these people are not following their findings is due to much more than theorycrafting. This is where the scientists step down and the engineers come in.

The reason why int beats out mastery and haste (lol really haste) is due to the nature of raid health and mana in relation to gear scaling. As gear (both healers and dps) scales with raid awareness and execution, mastery and haste become more and more useless. Haste by its very nature becomes useless in high scaling due to mana problems. Mastery becomes useless because 1) less damage goes out, 2) other healers heal more, 3) the size of your heals increase all around and less heals are needed to do the same amount of work 4) mastery suffers from diminishing returns (see crit vs mastery discussion) and is overtaken by crit in value. Furthermore the benefit of int is further increased by existing mastery.

Also i passed on the will trinket, that thing sucks.

[Holofernes]

i assume thats why i achieve wol ranks as resto shaman in nearly every encounter we do, with ilvl under 480 until yesterday. I was miles ahead of the other healers in my raid, until i told them to throw away their intsockets, now we are all within a few percent. So yeah science is wrong, like charles darwin is wrong in the eyes of creationists.
Also my experience says that most heals i do cast are on players with low % hp, and at current raiding the dmg events that are coming in equals somwhat between 30 to 80 % of player hp pool. I dont cast healing spells on full or nearly full players.

Even if u would want to heal as much as possible with no regards to overheal, and your raid is always near full , haste would flat out beat int in any situation imaginable. This has always been the case in wow, exept cata addon.

[woopytywoop]

before cata when int didn't give SP, I remember that once you got some baseline stats (SP most important) you stacked a modifier (haste).

It makes sense what Holo says, since intellect is basically SP now with a tiny bit of crit. Your mana pool doesn't increase so it really does nothing for longevity any more.
Like he explained with numbers, the breakpoint where modifiers trump the additives has been passed already (and non int gems giving double amount makes it even more clear).

Thanks for the elaborate explanation, Holo. I wasn't aware of it and even I'm not 100% convinced yet, you convinced me well enough to do my own research in stead of following the "guide parrots" telling you're a troll because you say something different from a guide they learned by heart.

So yeah science is wrong, like charles darwin is wrong in the eyes of creationists.

Best sentence I read today

[Mietsch]

I'm getting more and more confused as to what I should reforge to. I start raiding in 1-2 weeks (finaly). So I try to get my stats straightened out before we start. But then I read this.... and it's a lot of math... I love math, don't understand it all... but this is a lot :P

I was wondering 1 thing though. Math is straight forward at least in the calculations made in this thread before stat x increases healing with y percentage. Am I seeing it wrong when I think all stats are woven with eachother?

Intellect makes your heal hit harder for a set amount.

Mastery makes your heal hit harder by a percantage IF your target is at lower then 100% health. The lower the health the harder the heal. The heal itself is increased and tied to how high your Intellect is (how hard your basic heal will hit without the Mastery). So lowering Intellect in favor of Mastery will result in a lower basic heal and thus a lower amount of extra heal due to it being a percentage of the basic heal.
Lowering Mastery in favor of Intellect will result in a higher basic heal but lower percentage extra amount of heal but this still might be a increase because how percentages work.

Crit chance gives a chance to get twice the amount of a heal. The higher your Intellect the higher the increase on the heal. Higher Mastery wil increase the heal as well. And you get mana back which is a nice bonus. It's just not as reliable mathwise as the other stats. But hey it's a game based on reaction not math.

Haste will make you cast faster and burn mana faster. Letting Intellect go in favor of mana will make you heal less hard, but make you heal more often. I think this is the stat at least desirable to us because we eat mana so fast.

Spirit regens mana and noting more than that. Loosing Intellect, Mastery or Crit(if you get a crit) over Spirit will make your heal less strong so you need to cast more heals for the same end result but you get mana back more swiftly.

So the way I see it you have a bunch of stats all mixed in with eachother and losing out on 1 to get another will affect all other stats as well. Even the regen stats. Getting high heals is sweet. But if you don't regen any mana you will have a hard time in any fight.

I might be all wrong but I somehow don't believe that a stat can be seen as gives you x% more healing. They are all gaining and losing from eachother.

Writing this got me even more confused as to what I should gem and reforge for.
And no I am not a very good shaman. I was just wondering if my thinking is true.

[Mavalynn]

I'm getting more and more confused as to what I should reforge to. I start raiding in 1-2 weeks (finaly). So I try to get my stats straightened out before we start. But then I read this.... and it's a lot of math... I love math, don't understand it all... but this is a lot :P

I was wondering 1 thing though. Math is straight forward at least in the calculations made in this thread before stat x increases healing with y percentage. Am I seeing it wrong when I think all stats are woven with eachother?

Intellect makes your heal hit harder for a set amount.

Mastery makes your heal hit harder by a percantage IF your target is at lower then 100% health. The lower the health the harder the heal. The heal itself is increased and tied to how high your Intellect is (how hard your basic heal will hit without the Mastery). So lowering Intellect in favor of Mastery will result in a lower basic heal and thus a lower amount of extra heal due to it being a percentage of the basic heal.
Lowering Mastery in favor of Intellect will result in a higher basic heal but lower percentage extra amount of heal but this still might be a increase because how percentages work.

Crit chance gives a chance to get twice the amount of a heal. The higher your Intellect the higher the increase on the heal. Higher Mastery wil increase the heal as well. And you get mana back which is a nice bonus. It's just not as reliable mathwise as the other stats. But hey it's a game based on reaction not math.

Haste will make you cast faster and burn mana faster. Letting Intellect go in favor of mana will make you heal less hard, but make you heal more often. I think this is the stat at least desirable to us because we eat mana so fast.

Spirit regens mana and noting more than that. Loosing Intellect, Mastery or Crit(if you get a crit) over Spirit will make your heal less strong so you need to cast more heals for the same end result but you get mana back more swiftly.

So the way I see it you have a bunch of stats all mixed in with eachother and losing out on 1 to get another will affect all other stats as well. Even the regen stats. Getting high heals is sweet. But if you don't regen any mana you will have a hard time in any fight.

I might be all wrong but I somehow don't believe that a stat can be seen as gives you x% more healing. They are all gaining and losing from eachother.

Writing this got me even more confused as to what I should gem and reforge for.
And no I am not a very good shaman. I was just wondering if my thinking is true.

This.

Yes, exactly. All the stats are related. Too much of any of them throws off the balance, just as too little of any of them.

So...follow the guides. Play around with the stats. I reforged about 10 times before I got to were I like my balance of stats. Your stats will depend on so many factors: raid size, raid healing comp, raid comp, level of progression, your playstyle, etc. How I view it, if you make an educated decision on your stats and have a reason for choosing said stat priority, then you'd probably be in good shape.

[Eijnar]

i assume thats why i achieve wol ranks as resto shaman in nearly every encounter we do, with ilvl under 480 until yesterday. I was miles ahead of the other healers in my raid, until i told them to throw away their intsockets, now we are all within a few percent. So yeah science is wrong, like charles darwin is wrong in the eyes of creationists.
Also my experience says that most heals i do cast are on players with low % hp, and at current raiding the dmg events that are coming in equals somwhat between 30 to 80 % of player hp pool. I dont cast healing spells on full or nearly full players.

Even if u would want to heal as much as possible with no regards to overheal, and your raid is always near full , haste would flat out beat int in any situation imaginable. This has always been the case in wow, exept cata addon.

Can you give me an autograph since you make wol rankings ? On a second note stick your rank 109 on Elegon up where the sun don't shine. Furthermore, ilvl 480 is overgearing Mogushan by quite a bit. So you are basing your comments on your fellow healer ? Because if he gemmed straight int. as any class he would be a downright moron.

And good on you not casting heals on people with full health, best piece of advice ever.

Your "idea" of haste being better than int in that wonderful scenario is just wrong - or it is only correct if you assume that the only heal that you will be able to cast is CH / HW / GHW / HS because if you can throw a HR / HST then int. is stronger in your scenario.


[User was infracted for this post]

Play nice.

[Cai]

Okay, so I am utterly confused concerning Stat priorities. I was looking at Icy-Veins.com guide and it said haste soft cap, 1st break point, is 12.5% which comes to about 3k haste. I also looked at Noxxic.com and it said 1st break point is 871.... I am really confused as to why there are 2 different answers. Also Askmrmrobot hast haste soft cap at 12.5%. Is Noxxic wrong or am I missing something?

Edit: Also what is a good number for Spirit currently I am sitting at 5170. But I still feel like I am running OOM quickly.

[Seriss]

Okay, so I am utterly confused concerning Stat priorities. I was looking at Icy-Veins.com guide and it said haste soft cap, 1st break point, is 12.5% which comes to about 3k haste. I also looked at Noxxic.com and it said 1st break point is 871.... I am really confused as to why there are 2 different answers. Also Askmrmrobot hast haste soft cap at 12.5%. Is Noxxic wrong or am I missing something?

Edit: Also what is a good number for Spirit currently I am sitting at 5170. But I still feel like I am running OOM quickly.

You're missing something

871 is your best breakpoint if you spec Ancestral Swiftness (5% passive haste + instant cast every minute). If you don't, you need a rather large value that I don't have memorized. It is sitting somewhere above 3k though. It's probably listed in the sticky guide on here somewhere.

Without Ancestral Swiftness, another easily obtainable value would be 2017 or so (somebody correct me here... it's another one of those numbers that I'm not shooting for but it's sitting in my brain regardless - and I'm too lazy to check the sticky guide :P.) That value doesn't give you a tick to one of the spells that are all getting additional ticks if you get AS + 871.


Some people say that they don't need a lot of spirit... I ask myself how they can manage like that. Many shamans, including myself, go for a lot of spirit. 9-10k would be good to aim for. More if your gear supports it (let's face it, we only have so many sockets). When you're only starting out on MV normal modes, you can and have to manage with less, of course. We all had to. Try to have spirit on as many pieces of your gear as possible and then gem and enchant for it too until you feel halfway comfortable. I always say that if I feel that one day, I have enough spirit, I'll first use an int flask over the spirit flask and only then will I start changing something on my gear. But until then, I'm going for spirit - except for when we're trying Gara'jal again. That guy needs healer to go pewpew at the start, so int-flask for that one. And the buff in the spirit realm makes spirit not-quite-so-useful - unless you need to stay out of there for a couple of totems. Maybe I'll even swap my JC gems. They're rotting in my bags anyway.

[Holofernes]

Haste breakpoints can be found at http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=41.

refering to eijnar:

its not an "idea".
it is something called a "thought experiment" where u make up a completely unlikely situation /scenario ,where u would get the best theoretical output of the stat "int", lets call it "x", and compare / calculate those relative values within this experiments boundaries, to prove, that even in the most benefitual situation for stat x, stat y still would provide better performance. So u can rule out theory mistakes and gear for the situation and needs of your raid / healing team.

and no i dont give autographs, i only wanted to show some credibility, but i sense its useless.

Back to your statement about the healing totems /healing rain: U suggest, that int > haste. I will give u a comparison.

First: itemlvl statvalues: int =1 ; Secondary stats= 2. (just watch a random hybrid socket in game to verify)

Socket int if u want, to boost your totems and rain and perform as good as u can.
If i wanted to boost my totems, and my rain, i would socket haste till 2. cap, to get an additional tick out of them, and my totem spell would be 16,6 % (7 ticks vs 6 ticks) stronger than yours only due to the additional tick.

u would need a LOT of Int to compensate this, if calculated from 25000 spellpower , it would be roundabout 4 k int, or freaking 25 int gems. (25000*16,66 %) if calculated from 30000 spellpower, it would be 5 k int.

The haste you need to achieve the additional tick is 3760 haste total, and it never changes If u have some haste on your gear ( im at nearly 2 k from what i wear, with haste reforged away) This would equal 12 haste gems.

The amount of Int u need to pull even, rises with gearlvl.

So in the most benefitial scenario for int , where u have zero base haste, and not so high spellpower, haste wins by a factor of two in statpoints in regards to totems.

And additionally, spellpower coefficients are lower than 1, 1 int doesnt improve your healingspell by 1.
so u dont even get all of the benefit from your int with your spell, wich makes int even worse.


so ok i totally see, how int is so muchbetter, when i need 25 int gems to achieve the same than 12 haste gems.

[Mietsch]

It's 871 hasterating + AS + 5% spellhaste provided by your raid (non-Goblin) which results in 12.5% haste. If you miss 1 of these 3 your Haste plateau to get another tick will increase a lot.

From Totemspot

[Endus]

Furthermore, ilvl 480 is overgearing Mogushan by quite a bit.

Considering the gear that drops IN Mogu'shan Vaults is ilvl 489, no, ilvl 480 isn't outgearing anything.