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  1. #21
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Problem with blizzard is that they only do drastic changes and don't fully understand what players want. We don't want 6 month wait time between raids but we want enough time to complete the instances aswell, so a new raid every 2 months would be nice.
    Who says 2 months is enough? Not only are you going to see some people fall behind a lot more with this logic, but the time to build, develop & test raids would be far to short. You're asking for quantity, I seek quality. 2 Months is a push for most people, the game is not like that anymore.

    Icecrown & Dragon Soul lasted far to long, I just hope they've learnt to strike a balance.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Tier 11 had a 2 boss dungeon, I wouldn't really count that as most guilds generally skipped it anyway to rush for Nefarion/Sinestra. Sha is the end game for this tier, and that's what everyone is counting as the finish line.
    None were skipped. X/13 - the higher X in the shortest amount of time, the better wowprogress ranking. If one guild was competing for the server's first end boss (Al'akir, Nefarian, Sinestra) then of course that was the priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    What is the point in throwing out raid after raid when people can't even do the first one? This is probably why we run into no content for the last 8 months of an expansion. We basically have done one new heroic boss each week, using 2 of our 3 raid days (and we even added a fourth to clean up a few times) to do so. We have PLENTY to do, that isn't a problem right now. Why add more? Blizzard could line up the next 5-6 months with raids easily, and have people raiding stuff that's relatively fresh still.
    The only thing bad about this design is that one raid drops a higher item level than the other. It makes the difficulty of doing the lowest tuned raid too easy, and at the same time it gives an incentive to ignore the raid which drops lesser gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    I can see how you think it's fine if you don't do any heroics, but for anyone who's wiping 40-60 times to a heroic boss in MSV will probably understand that there's going to be a lot of their plate pretty soon.
    Everything seemed out of reach in tier 11. But since there was a linear progression curve every guild did the easiest bosses first. Step by step everything was cleared in time, and if you were in a decent guild you'd have 13/13 on farm within the release of Firelands (6-7 months after Cata release). If content was too hard, at least you had fun progressing throughout the whole tier, instead of facerolling through the very low difficulty of Firelands and Dragon Soul after the nerfs started rolling.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2012-10-26 at 03:29 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Tier 11 had a 2 boss dungeon, I wouldn't really count that as most guilds generally skipped it anyway to rush for Nefarion/Sinestra. Sha is the end game for this tier, and that's what everyone is counting as the finish line.

    What is the point in throwing out raid after raid when people can't even do the first one? This is probably why we run into no content for the last 8 months of an expansion. We basically have done one new heroic boss each week, using 2 of our 3 raid days (and we even added a fourth to clean up a few times) to do so. We have PLENTY to do, that isn't a problem right now. Why add more? Blizzard could line up the next 5-6 months with raids easily, and have people raiding stuff that's relatively fresh still.


    I can see how you think it's fine if you don't do any heroics, but for anyone who's wiping 40-60 times to a heroic boss in MSV will probably understand that there's going to be a lot of their plate pretty soon.
    See, now people like you are the reason this game has gone to shit.

    You will be content with literally NOTHING and still pay for the game. Essentially giving blizzard the idea that no matter what the majority of their fanbase is a bunch of fanboi kids who will never stop handing over their money, and being a company blizzard took advantage of that and massively cut their entire employee base (remember the big 25% layoff last year) to emphasis profit because even with 20% less developers/customer support/etc they will still maintain the same fanboi kid subscriptions.

    Also, you're a joke if you think hardcore guilds just skipped over an easy boss like council of wind just to rush to sinestra (council was a million times harder than sinestra, but you wouldn't have ever gotten that far)


    And you're probably doing it wrong if it takes you a full week to get a new boss down.

    Nobody has ever complained about having all of t11 released at once or all of ulduar at once.

    Infact people hated the fact that ICC was gated and swp too.

    If you're going to bitch about how hard raiding is at least have some decently dated kills that show you actually know what you're talking about rather than just be random normal mode guild #9809 complaining about content he has never and will never see.


    And I seriously doubt you will be feeling the same as you do now in 8-10 months when you've had it on farm for more than 4 months.
    Last edited by This name sucks; 2012-10-26 at 03:30 PM.

  4. #24
    well you got lots of time probably 8+ months til next raid patch, so no need to rush anything, take your time and enjoy content!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    I see no armory so I'm going in a limb say hes not from that era or doesn't even remember haha!!
    Except that this tier has five more bosses in normal or four more bosses in heroic, none of which are particular pushovers (comp/size depending) whereas T11 had a few giveaway bosses in terms of difficulty.

    It's easy to feel overwhelmed by such a large number of raid bosses. I don't think it's fair to be outright mocking an individual for expressing that either considering they're not alone in feeling that way nor does it mean they won't take the challenge head on.

  6. #26
    I do think it's too soon. Should be like a month or so away then the next raid a couple of months after, all those wanting it soon will be the same ones complaining they are bored.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderworldSoup View Post
    Except that this tier has five more bosses in normal or four more bosses in heroic, none of which are particular pushovers (comp/size depending) whereas T11 had a few giveaway bosses in terms of difficulty.

    It's easy to feel overwhelmed by such a large number of raid bosses. I don't think it's fair to be outright mocking an individual for expressing that either considering they're not alone in feeling that way nor does it mean they won't take the challenge head on.
    All of bot with the exception of halfus was incredibly hard when cata had just released and everyone was still in blues.

    Al'akir was impossible pre nerf.

    Black rock was pretty hard before it had the shit nerfed out of it. Omni/magmaw/old atramedes/old maloriak were incredibly hard, even if it was only because of the interrupt requirements.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire
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    No, but if 5.1 comes out before early/middle December that WILL be too soon.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Algearond View Post
    No, but if 5.1 comes out before early/middle December that WILL be too soon.
    5.1 doesn't have a raid, though. New Quests, new faction, new dailies, new scenarios and much new lore. But no raid, so it may hit in December.

    Still, with a whooping 16 bosses, I wouldn't be suprised if the next raidtier would only hit live servers after 6-8 months. But if filler content comes in between, why not? I could also see a 5.2 with new 5 man dungeon, scenarios or PvP related stuff (the DotA like BG for example, that was announced way back at Blizzcon).

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Don't drag us with you just because OMG MORE RAIDS OHHH NOEZZZ
    Pretty much exactly this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    All of bot with the exception of halfus was incredibly hard when cata had just released and everyone was still in blues.
    Of course I can't predict on what difficulty they exactly settled after the beta but I do agree. Halfus was freeloot of course but I don't really feel that current encounters are way harder than all the other t11 encounters.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-10-26 at 04:10 PM.

  11. #31
    Seeing as how there is 0 talk of a raid in 5.1 (which will probably be Blizzard's "Christmas Break/Vacation" patch), I am guessing we will have at least another 4-6 months of Tier 14.... which gives you plenty of time to do the raids.

    But I agree with everyone else in this thread... why are you complaining about too much raid content if you consider yourself a semi-hardcore raider? Like, I understand having "too much content to do" when 90% of that content is dailies, but when you have 16 raid bosses to kill (and lots of loot that comes with it), don't complain.

  12. #32
    Heroic MSV has a ton of BiS items for a lot of specs so serious raiders will be going back to farm H:MSV regardless of when HoF and TotES come out.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by blaqkmagick View Post
    It's no different from T11 (i think, correct me if I'm wrong), 3 raids at once.
    I fail to see how this argument makes any point. You're saying that just because it was done in the past this is the correct way to go? interesting...

  14. #34
    You can never have "too much" content.

    If you don't need it you don't have to do it.

    Hardcore players will be happy because they have something to do, casual players will be happy, because they have a choice what to raid from now on.

    People who don't like it... its just impossible to understand them. I guess its something like "I don't have time/will/skills to play, so you should not allow others to play as well". Ridiculous.

  15. #35
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    I don't think the problem is so much 'too much now' as it is Blizzard puts out a ton of bosses now, a few bosses in 5.2 six months from now, a 10ish boss end raid in 5.3 four months after that, and then no new content for a year while we wait for Burning Crusade 2: This Time You Really Won't Be Prepared/Wrathion and Anduin's Excellent Adventure/Malfurion's Emerald Dream Acid Trip/Whatever the next expansion is.

    Pacing has been a problem the past two expansion packs, with a ton of content up front, and then a long lull before the next expansion. Whether the content patches before the final content patch come too slow or fast for you will depend on your guild's rate of progression, so there's no way that Blizzard can pace the content in a way that satisfies everyone. Instead they should be pacing the content patches in a way that matches their own ability to produce content for the next patch/expansion, so we don't get a long lapse in content that we had with ICC and DS.

  16. #36
    Okay so I'll try to be a little bit less of a cunt then the other assholes in this thread.

    It is definately a lot...The purpous of pushing this content this way was to
    A) Have smaller content patches more often so there is consistently new content
    B) spread out the initial raids (it has never worked well to have multiple new raids open at 1 time as the raiding gets overwhelming)

    That being said, the new raids will have heroic fights that are easier than Spirit Kings/Will which are probably the two hardest fights in MV, so this will allow them to continue working on new content instead of brick walling (THIS IS STRICTLY A BENEFIT FOR GUILDS THAT ARE SLOWLY PROGRESSING).

    My guild, being 6/6 in MV will probably NOT waste much time in MV when the new heroics are out. We may use 2 hours per week to accumulate more trinkets/weapons but otherwise most of the heroic gear in MV will get replaced quickly (not all).

  17. #37
    I really liked T11, in part precisely because it was three different raids that were each very different environments and fights. My favourite raids of all were Ulduar and ICC; back then, being able to raid them in both 25 and 10 man meant that the burnout of being stuck on a single boss for a long time was avoided by allowing you variety in what you were raiding. Releasing three raids simultaneously in T11 was a great way of compensating to some extent for the introduction of shared lockouts and avoiding burnout from being stuck on a single boss. Compare that with Firelands and DS, with their handful of bosses and complete lack of variety.

    I think the reason the release of these new raids feels overwhelming is because we're used to new content bringing new of gear, which wipes out the difficulty of the previous tier - if you hadn't killed Ragnaros H when DS came out, it didn't really count if you managed it afterwards because the new gear trivialised it to some extent. That's not the case now as all these T14 raids are supposed to be the same tier, it just doesn't feel like it yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    What is the point in throwing out raid after raid when people can't even do the first one? This is probably why we run into no content for the last 8 months of an expansion. We basically have done one new heroic boss each week, using 2 of our 3 raid days (and we even added a fourth to clean up a few times) to do so. We have PLENTY to do, that isn't a problem right now. Why add more? Blizzard could line up the next 5-6 months with raids easily, and have people raiding stuff that's relatively fresh still.
    If they staggered the release of these raids more than they've already done they'd also have to tune them higher to compensate for people being in BiS and introduce more gear levels, otherwise people would be facerolling them if they're already outgeared for them; that would lead to even more item level inflation which wouldn't be a good thing.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-26 at 08:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    Pacing has been a problem the past two expansion packs, with a ton of content up front, and then a long lull before the next expansion. Whether the content patches before the final content patch come too slow or fast for you will depend on your guild's rate of progression, so there's no way that Blizzard can pace the content in a way that satisfies everyone. Instead they should be pacing the content patches in a way that matches their own ability to produce content for the next patch/expansion, so we don't get a long lapse in content that we had with ICC and DS.
    Very much agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogarr View Post
    It is definately a lot...The purpous of pushing this content this way was to
    A) Have smaller content patches more often so there is consistently new content
    Then as has been mentioned, you either need expansions coming out much faster, or put up with massive item inflation.

    B) spread out the initial raids (it has never worked well to have multiple new raids open at 1 time as the raiding gets overwhelming)
    That's not at all true, it's far more overwhelming and demotivating to be stuck on one boss for what seems like forever than to have a variety of bosses (separate lockouts) or raids (T11) to work on.

    That being said, the new raids will have heroic fights that are easier than Spirit Kings/Will which are probably the two hardest fights in MV, so this will allow them to continue working on new content instead of brick walling (THIS IS STRICTLY A BENEFIT FOR GUILDS THAT ARE SLOWLY PROGRESSING).
    Agree with this.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by skitz0129 View Post
    Heroic MSV has a ton of BiS items for a lot of specs so serious raiders will be going back to farm H:MSV regardless of when HoF and TotES come out.
    Only a tiny fraction of the player population, maybe 1%, has downed even a single boss in H MV at this point. Only a slightly larger fraction has downed even a single boss in normal mode MV.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaqkmagick View Post
    It's no different from T11 (i think, correct me if I'm wrong), 3 raids at once.
    The difference here is that the gear in HoF and ToES are better than the MSV gear, which can make it confusing for some guilds to know what they should be progressing on. Plus, there's gonna be way more bosses this time around.

    I'm just glad that we're getting plenty of content for once.

  20. #40
    Um, no. I'm sorry to put it this way, but you are not a "fairly hardcore" guild. You are the regular "better than most guilds but not too bad nor too good guild". And don't get me wrong there is absolutely nothing bad with this (and this is already much better than the immense majority of the playerbase, just not what is considered hardcore).

    Regular people should always get something new to strive for, not complete the patches every single time then twiddle their thunbs. This is inevitable for hardcore people who clean the content in 1 week, but for more regular people, theorically you should never (or extremely rarely) see the top of the mountain. It ensures that you still strive towards playing more and more, becoming better, being motivated towards beating that nasty boss who has ridiculed your raid X times already.

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