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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Eriaku's Avatar
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    Guild wars 2 Spvp (WoW all over again)

    Focusing on GW2 spvp for a second. I share an account with my wife, so I let her do all the pve content, and my characters exist purely in the Mists. I've played every class in spvp sans Necromancer, and I've noticed some stupid trends that I've come to hate while playing World of Warcraft (and is part of why I quit WoW) While playing a Theif, I get called all kinds of names, simply for doing what a theif does: Stealthing around, backstabbing people, running away when my hp gets too low, and being generally annoying to clothies and low toughness plate wearers. Eventually the hate got to me and I went over to Warrior. Again, my Warrior is a Frenzy HB warrior, (Named Bursty as Hell) and the hateful comments ranged from pathetically sad to rude, to racially offensive (I make all my characters dark skinned, like me).

    I never got hated on as much as I do when playing glass cannony characters as on my other toons. (Elementalist, Engineer, Guardian). But it seems that every time I drop somebody they have some choice words, perishing the fact that even though I'm bursty, I'm a one trick pony. It just saddens me that to add injury to insult, they scope me out (Calling target on me) and once three of them are done eating me alive at once, they feel the need to add: "Scrub" "Nub a** warrior," etc after I've died. Of course when I rez up I make sure to save Bullrush and Frenzy just for them, but I'm at my wits end with some of these people.

    When I die and someone kills me (especially in a 1v1) I consider it a reality check and a learning lesson. I know when I've been beaten and respect players that actually do outplay me....but....

    Everyone seems to have an idea of what should be balanced and what shouldn't. After the Heartseeker/Pistol Whip nerfs to Theif, people still complain and complain about them. Not realizing that thieves, when caught unawares, get blowed up super fast (unless they're toughness/cond spec). Everyone wants Hundred Blades nerfed not realizing they can just move the hell out of the way of it.

    But the worst spvp community offense so far is the amount of elitism that happens outside of the actual spvp battlegrounds.

    For example: I asked about Warrior weapons, trying to find something comparatively bursty to Greatsword. A few people made some suggestions, but after I revealed that Rifle was my alternate weapon, some warrior thought that he would derail the entire discussion just to let me know that I was a fail warrior for using a Rifle, and that in tournaments, nobody uses them, and that his guild makes fun of warriors that do.

    I don't know why, but this brings me all the way back to BC when I wanted to be Destruction, and killed people fairly well in BGs or 2v2, and people who got killed complained that I wasn't SL/SL and was fail for not killing them that way (probably because they're specced to counter SL/SL).


    I'm still going to play my warrior, but the community is starting to take its toll on my enjoyment of structured PvP. I guess as a mostly solo player this gets to me more than people with huge or very active guilds, but as a lone wolf, I just don't spec myself for playing with others.

    In any case, Guild Wars 2 is taking a disturbing turn in its spvp department. I really hope that there will not be much of a metagame for tournaments aside from maybe tactics. I enjoy trying out different things and honing those skills to be competitive with them. However, if the community continues this trend, we're going to see our favorite professions watered down into whatever is the Flavor of the Month being viable and nothing else, and I will be done with PvP at that point.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Iryne's Avatar
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    It is sad that some people just google "the best spec" and if you try something different or even kill them with known spec (that they have not prepared to counter) they get mad.

    Just hang on and find good pvp group while waiting paid tournaments. I hope they will remove this problem, since normally these people don't play at the higer level pvp (since they get killed so often XD). Paid tournaments are "As the name implies, paid automated tournaments have an entry fee. You’ll need tickets to enter a paid tournament, which you can purchase in the gem store, find in reward chests from free tournaments, and receive when you rank up!" If you have been pvping you most likely have bunch of these already.

    Anaet blong post about paid tournament and future of Guild Wars 2 PvP: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/s...d-pvp-iceberg/

  3. #3
    All PVP in all games is like this. It is the nature of being interested in PVP in the first place.

    DOTA, COD, SC & LOL communities say, what up.

  4. #4
    I've posted this sort of thing elsewhere, but:

    GW2 did a fantastic thing making PvP level and gear neutral. Aside from that, it suffers the exact same sort of balance problems that every other MMORPG does, because the genre itself doesn't make balance possible. It never has, and never will.

    In any of these games, you have 2 classes have 2 potentially different amounts of damage output, from differing distances, and varying amounts of escapes / stun breaks / crowd control. Add to that the fact that teams aren't (ever?) composed of matching numbers of classes, and any semblance of balance you're striving for gets thrown right out the window.

    There is no game or competition, in the classic sense, that doesn't require opposing forces to at least start with mirror image capacities. In chess, different pieces have different moves, but both players have the same number of them. Team sports, each side has a set number of forwards, guards, etc. Other video game genres that have ever been considered competition worthy (for the most part)? Same potential available to all players. But I digress.

    So what you end up with is a see-saw of balancing, 'fixing' one class just to watch some other aspect become overpowered. And most, if not all, simplistic 'l2p' counterarguments are examples that are given in a 1 vs 1 situation, assuming endurance is full and nothing is off CD (which almost never realistically happens), or doesn't take into account that the player doesn't have the ability use every skill in the book to counter something.

    Lastly, making tPvP and sPvP use differing numbers of players for the same game type was also a big mistake. The player limits mean completely different tactics for each, and attempting to balance for 1 is generally going to impact the other, and sometimes adversely. (not to mention PvP vs PvE implications).
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  5. #5
    PvP in any game tends to attract the more "hardcore" type players just because of the competitive nature. Sadly, these players also like to ridicule each other and tease the uninformed. My only advice would be to block or even report the person (depending on the offense) and just ignore it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Eriaku View Post
    Focusing on GW2 spvp for a second. I share an account with my wife, so I let her do all the pve content, and my characters exist purely in the Mists. I've played every class in spvp sans Necromancer, and I've noticed some stupid trends that I've come to hate while playing World of Warcraft (and is part of why I quit WoW) While playing a Theif, I get called all kinds of names, simply for doing what a theif does: Stealthing around, backstabbing people, running away when my hp gets too low, and being generally annoying to clothies and low toughness plate wearers. Eventually the hate got to me and I went over to Warrior. Again, my Warrior is a Frenzy HB warrior, (Named Bursty as Hell) and the hateful comments ranged from pathetically sad to rude, to racially offensive (I make all my characters dark skinned, like me).

    I never got hated on as much as I do when playing glass cannony characters as on my other toons. (Elementalist, Engineer, Guardian). But it seems that every time I drop somebody they have some choice words, perishing the fact that even though I'm bursty, I'm a one trick pony. It just saddens me that to add injury to insult, they scope me out (Calling target on me) and once three of them are done eating me alive at once, they feel the need to add: "Scrub" "Nub a** warrior," etc after I've died. Of course when I rez up I make sure to save Bullrush and Frenzy just for them, but I'm at my wits end with some of these people.

    When I die and someone kills me (especially in a 1v1) I consider it a reality check and a learning lesson. I know when I've been beaten and respect players that actually do outplay me....but....

    Everyone seems to have an idea of what should be balanced and what shouldn't. After the Heartseeker/Pistol Whip nerfs to Theif, people still complain and complain about them. Not realizing that thieves, when caught unawares, get blowed up super fast (unless they're toughness/cond spec). Everyone wants Hundred Blades nerfed not realizing they can just move the hell out of the way of it.

    But the worst spvp community offense so far is the amount of elitism that happens outside of the actual spvp battlegrounds.

    For example: I asked about Warrior weapons, trying to find something comparatively bursty to Greatsword. A few people made some suggestions, but after I revealed that Rifle was my alternate weapon, some warrior thought that he would derail the entire discussion just to let me know that I was a fail warrior for using a Rifle, and that in tournaments, nobody uses them, and that his guild makes fun of warriors that do.

    I don't know why, but this brings me all the way back to BC when I wanted to be Destruction, and killed people fairly well in BGs or 2v2, and people who got killed complained that I wasn't SL/SL and was fail for not killing them that way (probably because they're specced to counter SL/SL).


    I'm still going to play my warrior, but the community is starting to take its toll on my enjoyment of structured PvP. I guess as a mostly solo player this gets to me more than people with huge or very active guilds, but as a lone wolf, I just don't spec myself for playing with others.

    In any case, Guild Wars 2 is taking a disturbing turn in its spvp department. I really hope that there will not be much of a metagame for tournaments aside from maybe tactics. I enjoy trying out different things and honing those skills to be competitive with them. However, if the community continues this trend, we're going to see our favorite professions watered down into whatever is the Flavor of the Month being viable and nothing else, and I will be done with PvP at that point.
    Try not to lost sleep over what other think how you should play the game. Just keep doing what it is that your was doing as long as you are having fun. In the end its just a game and games are for fun.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Xzan's Avatar
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    Every time people hate on you after defeating them just means that you're doing something right and that everything they got left is meaningless words...

    edit: Learn to enjoy it, you'll have loads of fun laughing at QQing lamers... >

  8. #8
    It's also worth noting that the majority of PVP based game modes or games are asymmetrically designed. I.E. parity is never possible on a 1:1 ratio of this or that mechanic. A lot of player perception of "balance" is nothing more than nonsense. At best, a false understanding of game design.

    So really, who cares about the person typing "noob! cheese build!" in /map? Chances are high he couldn't balance a PVP video game to save his life either.

    Just like enjoy yourself. Haters gonna hate, so to speak.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Unfortunately this is a problem a popular game gets to experience. GW2 was advertised a lot, but what everyone praised it for was PvP. So many people came to this game for PvP, since they knew in other games (WoW, since you gave the example) there wasn't such a balance. Even GW2 has its problems, true, but overall some things make the PvP good. Now, making the game popular also attracts an unwanted part of community. The elitists who think they're better then everyone and everything, jerks who laugh in your face and whatnot. Why? Because it's popular so they go and try it.

    So, unfortunately, as long as the game is popular, these people will be attracted to it. And, because they have a large ego, they won't bother to research other classes then theirs, so when someone else gets them down, they'll complain and complain until it gets "fixed" (in their view). And yes, this happened in WoW and is still happening, and I fear of it happening in GW2 too. Unfortunately only time will tell how things will work out.

    That said, ignore people that insult you. Or, better yet, ArenaNet seems to have a policy of actually respecting its play terms, so if someone throws racial slurs... report them for a healthier community

  10. #10
    This is exactly why I just turn off chat completely when I'm in sPVP. Barely anyone communicates in pug-PvP anyway other than of course people calling names etc. Once some random person called me all sorts of things because apparently going 2v1 is not allowed.

  11. #11
    Arnorei, I wouldn't expect the vocal minority to lead to rebalancing - it never did in GW1 (though some would point to the lack of official forums, they still communicated greatly with their player base); instead, rebalancing occurred to rebalance the meta - skills (or more precisely, skill combinations) were too OP/UP, so they were brought in line with others

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  12. #12
    Field Marshal Eriaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I've posted this sort of thing elsewhere, but:

    GW2 did a fantastic thing making PvP level and gear neutral. Aside from that, it suffers the exact same sort of balance problems that every other MMORPG does, because the genre itself doesn't make balance possible. It never has, and never will.

    In any of these games, you have 2 classes have 2 potentially different amounts of damage output, from differing distances, and varying amounts of escapes / stun breaks / crowd control. Add to that the fact that teams aren't (ever?) composed of matching numbers of classes, and any semblance of balance you're striving for gets thrown right out the window.

    There is no game or competition, in the classic sense, that doesn't require opposing forces to at least start with mirror image capacities. In chess, different pieces have different moves, but both players have the same number of them. Team sports, each side has a set number of forwards, guards, etc. Other video game genres that have ever been considered competition worthy (for the most part)? Same potential available to all players. But I digress.

    So what you end up with is a see-saw of balancing, 'fixing' one class just to watch some other aspect become overpowered. And most, if not all, simplistic 'l2p' counterarguments are examples that are given in a 1 vs 1 situation, assuming endurance is full and nothing is off CD (which almost never realistically happens), or doesn't take into account that the player doesn't have the ability use every skill in the book to counter something.

    Lastly, making tPvP and sPvP use differing numbers of players for the same game type was also a big mistake. The player limits mean completely different tactics for each, and attempting to balance for 1 is generally going to impact the other, and sometimes adversely. (not to mention PvP vs PvE implications).

    See, I don't know much about the subject, but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that pvp can't be balanced. Again, I've played every class except necromancer, and I've noticed a definite balance in the type of spec someone plays vs what someone else plays. A Bunker vs a glass cannon is a toss up if the players are both at the same skill level. I've noticed at least with professions that there seems to be a paper/rock/scissors aspect as well. For example, on my theif, I have trouble killing Engineers, On my Warrior, Guardians give me problems, on my Engineer, I... I can kill everyone except engineers (That is my best profession though.) But this is only if the players are on the same skill level as me, all this goes out the window if they're not as experienced. You can usually tell people popping utility skills at inopportune moments, or backpedaling aren't as familiar with the nuances of pvp, but overall I've not run into anything truly "overpowered."
    Of course this is all based on my experiences with spvp. Tpvp is different. Tactics win here, and an entire team using rock dog runes is SO FREAKING ANNOYING, but again, Tactics and preparation trump everything. Honestly I don't see how there is much difference between balancing spvp and tpvp differently. Spvp has greater numbers because there's people who are going to be a liability to your team, and then you've got those that like to run off and superman by themselves. I would like to see an end to zerg tactics, (maybe a map that forces you to split your team) or straight up deathmatches like WoW's Arena (Gotta build my wife a rig for 2s!)

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-26 at 01:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Moralio View Post
    This is exactly why I just turn off chat completely when I'm in sPVP. Barely anyone communicates in pug-PvP anyway other than of course people calling names etc. Once some random person called me all sorts of things because apparently going 2v1 is not allowed.
    Turn your chat back on if you see me. I call incs and let people know what I'm doing if I'm doing siege warfare. (Khylo, Foefire, etc). I usually ignore people's snarky comments, but when they start calling target on me and pretending like they 1v1'd me down when they've got their entire team with them, it gets really disheartening.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    I got a lot of hate on my Thief as well. I had one guy whisper me about 100 times with "Spam" and started hurling all sorts of insults at me over the general chat. Of course this just made me target him first in every encounter and continued sending him to the graveyard. Eventually he started whispering some really really angry messages. I only got him to stop by saying, "Sorry man, I'm a terrible player and a pathetic person who can only succeed by using cheap tactics". I think he ran out of ammunition at that point. =)

  14. #14
    Honestly though, I can see why some people get annoyed with certain "cheese" mechanics. Things like Quickness can end up being extremely annoying, especially when some Thief downs you in two seconds. There's a looot of ridiculous burst built into the game that - at least from where I'm sitting - really shouldn't be there.

    It's a complaint that's pretty common amongst tPvP players as well, the fact that it's extremely easy to line up an unsurvivable burst combined with the fact that most classes don't really have any significant sustainability. It's no wonder that Power specs have mostly eclipsed Condition specs in a lot of tPvP teams, simply because it's so easy to wind up that huge bat and smack someone with it versus taking time to stack a bunch of conditions that any good team will just wipe.

  15. #15
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Arnorei, I wouldn't expect the vocal minority to lead to rebalancing - it never did in GW1 (though some would point to the lack of official forums, they still communicated greatly with their player base); instead, rebalancing occurred to rebalance the meta - skills (or more precisely, skill combinations) were too OP/UP, so they were brought in line with others
    Alas I didn't know how things worked out in GW1, thanks for telling me, hope it remains the same in this aspect and they research good when someone tells them something about a class being underpowered/overpowered.

  16. #16
    First off, I would never, ever rage on someone like that. But they do kinda have a point with the builds you described. All of these builds are very easy to play, require little skill and have nearly unpreventable damage. Hence, some people with more difficult classes/builds (and who take it very seriously) will feel 'cheated' and that you 'took the easy way out' which apparently makes them angry enough to tell you how they feel about that.

    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  17. #17
    I dont get angry when I see people playing faceroll builds. I just laugh that it's possible. Sure, some people enjoy a challange while other people probably just want to win and if they can do that with next to no effort... why shouldnt they? It's a matter of choice. I must confess I never stop laughing when I see these heartseeker pros, and me and my friends laugh a lot on skype when seeing them or getting one if we pug, but we dont mess around with it in the ingame chat so noone can be offended =) We had a couple of good laughs at 100 blade warriors as well. However, the game was advertised as being skill based, and that's why people want balance and this to happen. Atm though the main issues are bugs to professions, and once they are all fixed which will take a while the real balance can happen and ANet will hopefully promote skill usage. Now it's just a matter of adapting specs to deal with balance issues and use of exploits (guardians wasnt fixed last patch) and try to make the best of it
    Your lord is under attack! Your lord is under attack!

  18. #18
    i dont see this in sPvp and played it a lot
    where you guys from? is this an american problem? cause i play in europe (germany) and dont see things like this in sPvp - lol dont even see anything written in chat looks like noone use it

    and guys dont forget gw2 is an teambased pvp - and team vs team is balanced - noone care for your 1vs1

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Mr. Casual's Avatar
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    wait what?... you listen to the shit people talk on the internet?... fail. lol jk but seriously you cant pay that type of stuff any mind. you payed your money so all those kids can suck a fat one. people in their minds like to pretend they are good so when they die they bitch. play how you want to play until somebody buys you a new computer and gw2 and then that person can tell you how to play lol

  20. #20
    i have been playing bunker guardian 510 hours now and i dont do that much 8v8... i just do tournaments and ppl dont really qq about them

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