2nd haste breakpoint not worth it?

[magazz]

Hi all,

I am a restoration druid and have been playing one and have been resto since mid launch of BC. That being said, I know our most important stat has been haste and it made significant difference in Cata and so on...

As I start gearing up little by little in MOP (my current ilvl is 480 equipped) I decided to go for the 2nd haste break point to get an extra tick of Wild Growth. Last week I was at first breakpoint at 3043 and I had lots of mastery. I must say that last week I did a LOT better on healing meter and this week not so hot. I was #4-5 out of 6 healers at time on boss fights vs last week I was #1 or #2 on healing meter with 3043 haste vs 5320...

We are about to conquer Elegon 25 man and I know how mana intense the fight is and how you need to save mana any chance you can get. So that being said, should I go back to first haste break point (which would mean redo my gems from intell/haste to intell/spirit / intell/mastery) combo?

What do you guys say? My meta gem is intell/3 crit strike atm. The crit is nice for regrowth crits when my omen of clarity procs but just not sure. I haven't noticed any drastic change on healing logs this week vs last week I did a lot better with lesser haste...

Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated. Thx

[Ryzzen]

It is hard to say anything without logs, but it's possible you guys don't need 6 healers and your extra ticks were simply going to overheal.

Now after all of that, I look at the haste breakpoints and wonder if you simply messed up. 5320 is not the 2nd breakpoint, it is the first if you don't have the 5% haste buff. The true 2nd breakpoint is 6652, which is still a bit tricky to get but not impossible.

For now, if you can't hit 6652 then go back to 3043.

[magazz]

I was told :

3043 is first haste breakpoint
5320 2nd
6652 third

Where are you getting your numbers from?

My logs can be viewed at http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gb...?s=8020&e=8600

name is elvinna. As you can see 2 holy paladins and a holy priest smashed me on meter.

[Ryzzen]

http://www.icy-veins.com/restoration...rity-reforging

http://theincbear.com/math/resto-haste-breakpoints

---------- Post added 2012-10-26 at 02:44 PM ----------

Also, looking at earlier boss kills for comparison, you were pretty much the same position. Don't look at overall, trash means nothing. Still, until you can hit 6652 go back.

[magazz]

ok. Thanks

---------- Post added 2012-10-26 at 10:33 PM ----------

one more question...

Icy vein says :
Below you will find the Haste Rating values you need to reach the 12.5% (12.518%, to be precise) soft haste cap.

+5% Spell Haste Raid Buff Haste Rating Needed
NO 5316
YES 3039

Sometimes in raid we have no locks and if we have 1, she casts haste buff on shadow priest usually. So that means that I have to be at 5316 haste cap at all times?

[Deleted]

Warlocks doesn't give any spell haste buff anymore. Dark intent was changed to be +10% spell power. The 5% spell haste buff is avalible from moonkins, shadow priests, elemental shamans and hunters with a sporebat pet.

[Deleted]

with raid buff yes 3039 is a limit for rejuv tick for traq is 3043 so go for 3043 since its close .

p.s. 3043 is for HoT portion of Tranquility not gain extra ticks of Tranquitly itself.

[Thatwsntmilk]

Did anyone try the second haste breakpoint in a raid environment?
I was able to reach it by reforging and regemming yesterday but I am not too sure if I should keep it for the next progression raid as I lost well above 1k Spirit.

[henern]

The 6652 haste breakpoint should be counted as the 2nd one, the ones between 3043 and 6652 are simply not worth it.
That being said I regemmed/reforged my gear to 6652 haste this week and felt pretty comfortable pulling higher numbers more consistently now, and I'm raiding 10man. In a 25 man environment it should definitely be worth it if you can reach it without sacrificing too much. That extra tick from WG really helps.

[Deleted]

Henern -what ilvl gear do you have? how much spirit and mastery (and crit) ? How much spellpower? I found it hard to believe that reforging to 6652 has actually improve the performance since spellpower and mastery help with healing alot more than losing both for haste. Also are you using sotf ?

[magazz]

i reforged back to first haste cap today and then reforged to mastery. on trash I was #1 heals and on elegon 25 I was #3 but I also dispelled my ass off and was #3 on dispels in 25 man

[henern]

Currently sitting on 485 ilvl: 10020 spirit, 695 mastery (yeah, quite low :O), and 1232 crit, but hey, crit is imo quite bad when using regrowth glyph and never/extremely seldom using HT/Nourish.
Only 20181 spellpower due to sucky mainhand
Profile: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...enerf/advanced
Haven't really done much except reforging all my crit/mastery into haste, managed to do it without reforging any spirit to haste. Some pure haste gems instead of haste/spirit (or haste/int), but all in all, not sacrificing that much.

Now to the question if the 6652 haste cap has really improved my performance?
As always this is hard to say with healing, it's not like dps performance. It might be that I heal more, but it might also be the fact that my co-healer healed for less this week than previous. I did however feel stronger this lockout(and did more hps hoho), and I have almost the same gear as last week.

[Myrrar]

Currently sitting on 485 ilvl: 10020 spirit, 695 mastery (yeah, quite low :O), and 1232 crit, but hey, crit is imo quite bad when using regrowth glyph and never/extremely seldom using HT/Nourish.
Only 20181 spellpower due to sucky mainhand
Profile: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...enerf/advanced
Haven't really done much except reforging all my crit/mastery into haste, managed to do it without reforging any spirit to haste. Some pure haste gems instead of haste/spirit (or haste/int), but all in all, not sacrificing that much.

Now to the question if the 6652 haste cap has really improved my performance?
As always this is hard to say with healing, it's not like dps performance. It might be that I heal more, but it might also be the fact that my co-healer healed for less this week than previous. I did however feel stronger this lockout(and did more hps hoho), and I have almost the same gear as last week.

You'd probably see more success in 10 mans but dropping a bunch of that spi. If your other healer/s is as geared as you progressing through 10 HMs you can prob drop a bunch of spi with no hit to your regen. Put that into mastery, stay at the second haste point, and you'd probably reach the max efficiency and throughput with your gear since it only adds 1 tick to one spell you use and mastery buffs everything.





OP, I wouldn't go for the 2nd cap until you have full/close to full epics and you can drop spi. Dropping masses of int or mastery won't really help your healing situation. If it added an extra tick to RJ too it would possibly be worth it, you don't want to drop that much mastery just for 1 WG tick though.

The difference between the 1st breakpoint and the second is 3609 stats. 480 mastery makes all your heals 1% stronger.

[Maxvla]

edited - incorrect info after later post

[Old]

Second haste breakpoint (for WG) at 6652 won't be worth the trade. The only situation in which it would be is when you'll simply have too much haste from gear that even fully reforged you are way over the first cap. And that include reforging the spirit you don't want.

Right now you get a straight up 1% healing increase for every 480 mastery you have. Getting 6652 haste is like reforging ~3600 mastery into haste. 3600 mastery = 7.5% healing. You are nowhere near a 7.5% overall gain getting another tick of WG. Even 2 ticks of WG are not a 7,5% overall gain in some situations.

So to say, don't go for second haste breakpoint unless:
- You are overcapped even after reforging all your haste out.
- You don't want spirit anymore and can't reforge it to mastery

On a side note, we've recently discover a relation between spellpower and mastery, and at some breakpoint, it's better to gem full Mastery in yellow and Int+Mastery in red (if you don't want Int+Spirit). This is heavily dependent on the gear you have, especially weapon.

[Ashrr]

On a side note, we've recently discover a relation between spellpower and mastery, and at some breakpoint, it's better to gem full Mastery in yellow and Int+Mastery in red (if you don't want Int+Spirit). This is heavily dependent on the gear you have, especially weapon.

That's very interesting. Could you please tell us the breakpoint? I have the same weapon as you but I noticed you're gemming straight Mastery in yellow. When I try to do that in place of 80 int + 160 Mastery (or even haste if I'm below 3043), I'm losing about 100 spellpower. My item level is only 476 though. Unfortunately, I can't link my armory as I recently changed realms and I can't seem to find my updated character.

[Maxvla]

In 478 ilevel gear unbuffed with 3043 haste, 15.63% mastery (2704 rating), 15,580 int:

My wild growth's 8th tick is 2516. It's reasonable to assume the 9th tick is 2400 (the one we would gain from 6652). My entire wild growth including the simulated tick is 25394 healing. 2400 is 9.5% of 25394.

Despite the fact that a tick of WG is more than 7.5% (let alone 2 ticks...) the gain from 7.5% to all spells counters quite convincingly unless you cast almost nothing but WG.

With stats posted above:

RJ: 5594 increase
RG: 602 (HoT portion), 2653 (direct) increase
LB: 6935 increase
NS-HT: 7632 (once per minute)
WG: 1724 increase per target, 10344 total
Shrooms: Don't know how to model this with the 6 target cap, but it would be significant.

Compare to the increase to WG from haste over mastery:

WG w/mastery: 24718 per target
WG w/haste: 25394 per target

A difference of 676 per target or 4056 in total per cast. Small when you compare it to the increases posted above.

I had a feeling this was correct, but I didn't follow through with the math. I posted this a month ago on EJ, where it was mostly ignored.

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130799-...3/#post2201538

ps. Can someone verify my math? Not usually the calculator warrior when it comes to WoW...

[Ashrr]

^It's still 8.2% (+9th tick, if you can even reach 10th) only to Wild Growth, not to overall healing. The points in Mastery would buff every heal.

[Maxvla]

See my edit. Sorry went through several revisions.

Ah.. blast it. I always forget we don't gain a WG tick from raid buff, rather RJ/Tranq. 9th tick would be the gain from 6652, not 10th. editing again...

OK - done adjusting that.

Dropping a tick makes haste look better by a good bit, but still not anywhere near mastery. Doing the math for the 10th tick shows the 10th tick will never be worth it unless it's impossible to not have over 3043 haste, which I doubt. It further reaffirms my claim on EJ that unless we can reach 13426 haste which nets us 4 important tick increases from 12834 to 13426, going above 3043 haste is not worth it.

Wait a sec.. Binkenstein's chart reposted on EJ shows 13426 buffing WG, but that has to be a SotF WG, not normal since it shows 15 ticks.

The correct next haste point that will probably be worthwhile would be 13163 which nets us 4 tick increases from 12458 to 13163. Still ominously large, but who knows what we'll have in later tiers.

[Old]

That's very interesting. Could you please tell us the breakpoint? I have the same weapon as you but I noticed you're gemming straight Mastery in yellow. When I try to do that in place of 80 int + 160 Mastery (or even haste if I'm below 3043), I'm losing about 100 spellpower. My item level is only 476 though. Unfortunately, I can't link my armory as I recently changed realms and I can't seem to find my updated character.

I was trying to figure out what to put in yellow socket and decided to do some math on int vs mastery gems. Most important thing to keep in mind is that it's not a simple int vs mastery topic, because you will always get intellect on your gear and it's a primary vs secondary stat topic, therefore it matters only in your gems choice.

When I swapped my int+mastery gem into a pure mastery I noticed my Rejuv and WG were healing for +4 so I wondered. Talked a guildmate into it and we double checked with raid buffs, made sure pvp power (yes I have pvp bracers) was disabled and noticed that he was losing out on healing while I was gaining, for some reasons.

We made the spreadsheet for Rejuv and WG. The purpose was to see what was giving the most if you had a free gem socket, aka the belt buckle one, and we managed to understand that:
- It's a relation between spellpower and mastery.
- The higher your current mastery is, the higher your spell power needs to be for mastery to become better than intellect.
- It is possible to calculate a value for one of the 2 variables, given the other variable. But we decided to go for a fixed mastery amount.
- I'm very close to the breakpoint myself mainly because I have strong gear and crap weapon.
- Bottom line it means that getting a good weapon allows you to largely get over that cap..ish-relation.
- Although it's important to note that these results are ignoring our +healing CDs that could lessen the effect. But without too much maths, I don't think it will impact the overall results.

Keep in mind it's a 1:2 ratio for the gems (160int vs 320mastery). Also the healing gained is almost insignificant, so it's not much of big matter.
For example :
- Right now it seems that I'm just on the 1:2 ratio. I gain around 2-3 healing for total amount that Rejuv is healing (not for each tick). I have 25341 sp and 7153 mastery, raidbuffed.
- If I get the healing mace from Will of the Emperor HC, I'll gain around 8 healing on each tick of Rejuvenation for total of 40 healing increase. Pretty worthless...but still better
- We're not specced into Heart of the Wild.