The Problem of GW2 PvE

[ControlBlue]

Ah! It seems I didn't take into account the Halloween event....

Now that's gonna awkward...

[Fencers]

I guess I'm just getting too old, don't see the appeal.

I just think its that MMO PVE isn't your thing if I remember your posts correctly.

I only play PVE, it's super interesting to me seeing how good players/guilds approach raid puzzles. Or even to just see what an encounter is designed like-- even if I don't play that game directly. For example, I wanted to see what Firelands was like because I heard a lot about it but don't play World of Warcraft myself.

It was kinda awesome to just watch guilds streaming their runs of HC FL. ;p

Guild Wars 2 dungeons are not very interesting in that regard- there is not higher strategy or logistical puzzle. It's also a casual play experience. So the appeal and critical mass of watching Special Olympics, Vodka, Paragon, Trinity, Retribution, Fires of Heaven drop bosses with expert precision isn't really in GW2. Because that audience and to a degree, player base- is neither serviced or supported by Guild Wars 1 or 2.

How many streams of Urgoz are/were there?

WORLD FIRST DOMAIN OF ANGUISH


Not really gonna happen. Like ever.

[Arrowstormen]

In every game. Why not just play the game? I think I'd rather paint my house than watch other people play pve in games.

Maybe because they don't want to play it all that much, already have another game, don't have the cash for it, or they just enjoy the person who does it a lot.

[Awe]

Yes they do.

And the reason is quite simple: to watch people who are really good at it. Kungen had a lot of people watching him play GW2 and ironically even though he was one of the best PvEr in WoW he touched GW2 PvE once and never came back to it, instead just doing PvP :/. And then he went back to WoW :/......

The fact that a game as accessible as LoL has plenty of viewers prove that even if people can play the game, they will be okay with just watching it instead.

I think how many people watches streams is not fully relevant to how fun the game can be to play. I watch a lot of Starcraft 2 casts, I also watch some fighting games tournaments (even though I suck at both). LoL can be fun to watch as well. GW2 or WoW PvE? Not so much. Hell, even watching WoW arena matches is quite boring. It can be fun to play but not that fun to watch. I tried to get into watching Blizzard WoW arena tournaments but always got bored after 10 minutes. Tuned once to some PvE stream of Vodka(?) doing some show-raid. Watched a mage spamming arcane blast for 5 minutes and turned it off. Of course that is just my opinion but I am just pointing the fact that streams popularity is not directly proportional to how good or bad the game is.

[ControlBlue]

But it IS proportional to how popular it is. SWTOR is the perfect example of that, you should have seen that decline in viewers, it was constant and it was a pretty good sign that the game was going downhill.

[Zephyr Storm]

I have to disagree with the quote the OP used from another place. This game is designed around survival as well as damage. It's about being able to survive long enough to down the boss. It's NOT about maxing out dps and ignoring all other stats, utilities, etc. This is not how GW works nor will it ever be. You're trying to compare this game to much to other traditional MMOs like WoW and Everquest. GW does not have the same design philosophy as them. If you don't like the design, I'm sorry, but then this game isn't for you. Go play another MMO that fits your play style because GW will never be like them. It's just a fact that you'll have to deal with.

[barackopala]

But it IS proportional to how popular it is. SWTOR is the perfect example of that, you should have seen that decline in viewers, it was constant and it was a pretty good sign that the game was going downhill.

Totally doubtful, as Awe said, most of the SC2 viewer demography comes from non-players, a lot of friends who don't even play DotA watched the international 2.

[ControlBlue]

The key word in my post being 'Popular', NOT 'how much played'.

[melodramocracy]

I guess I'm just getting too old, don't see the appeal.

For me it serves 2 purposes: getting acquainted with a game that I don't own, but may consider purchasing, and to see a different approach to playing a game. D3 twitch feeds were a great example of this.

But to sit and watch someone level through an MMO that I might already be playing? That's pretty bizarre.

[Meledelion]

I have to disagree with the quote the OP used from another place. This game is designed around survival as well as damage. It's about being able to survive long enough to down the boss. It's NOT about maxing out dps and ignoring all other stats, utilities, etc.

This is simply wrong, GW2 is about DPS a lot more than ppl seem to realise. The "punishing" factor lies in how good you are at dodging. A good player can get away with a full berserker set and live without much issue, a player who is less skilled will need more tough/vit.

Also taking streaming sites to check how popular a game is is silly. I rlly don't care about method or w/e other guild streaming their progress, i'll watch the vid to learn how to do it if i need it, i won't watch a vid and be entertained. In gw2 "learning it" revolves solely aroud dodging the right thing at the right time which you can easily figure out yourself in 10-15mins max, which isn't worth watching a stream for an hour or more.

[Willias]

My only complaint is that mobs in GW2 dungeons have too much health, and mechanics are often too mixed up.

If you give a boss a move that instantly downs my character, he shouldn't also be able to pummel me into a pulp with his basic attacks. If a mob has no special abilities and just auto attacks, he shouldn't take 10 minutes to kill.

Other than that, PvE is fine in most places. If you're spending a lot of time down in a dungeon A) Quit trying to stack only Pow/Precision/+CritDMG or B) Reconsider your utility skill choices/major trait choices.

[Deleted]

Don't even try to criticise new games here, even when they are the worst you have ever seen you wold get flamed :O

[parcus]

My only complaint is that mobs in GW2 dungeons have too much health, and mechanics are often too mixed up.

If you give a boss a move that instantly downs my character, he shouldn't also be able to pummel me into a pulp with his basic attacks. If a mob has no special abilities and just auto attacks, he shouldn't take 10 minutes to kill.

Other than that, PvE is fine in most places. If you're spending a lot of time down in a dungeon A) Quit trying to stack only Pow/Precision/+CritDMG or B) Reconsider your utility skill choices/major trait choices.

Believe it or not, it depends a lot on the dungeon you run. I run dungeons with my guild and I generally don't feel the mobs health pool is too big. This is similar to the LFR, 10 people doing 10K DPS and the boss will take forever to die. Some paths however, are indeed much more difficult than others and mobs seems to have higher health in them.

[Elexo]

2 Issues with PvE for me.

Some bosses have too much health and in some places there's way too much trash.
Nobody wants to kill the same mobs for 40 minutes then be stuck on a boss with boring mechanics for 25 and then 40 minutes of the same mobs (looking at you, Sorrow's Embrace).

And sometimes a boss just sticks to people like glue and after a while you're out of dodges, heals and other special abilities and there's nothing else you can do but just die.
This can lead to a domino effect where due to less players being alive the focus stays more on the same guy which eventually leads to a full wipe.
At which point the person who died first is yelling at the last remaining guy to stay alive just a little longer so he can run back in and keep the boss from resetting.

There are a lot of fun fights in this game and I enjoy the PvE, but it's not flawless.
Sorrow's Embrace has the most fitting name one could give it.
Being stuck there for hours on end killing the same trash again and again and again.. I hate that place.

[glowpipe]

What pve ?

Game is designed for pvp

[Fencers]

Heh, I actually liked Sorrow's Embrace. Tied for my favorite dungeon with AC.

But CoF, CM, TA? Dire.

Without hesitation or reservation I would say Citadel of Flame is the worst dungeon I have ever played in an MMO. Extremely dull, nonsense mechanics and crazily buggy. Only COE's bugs were a cause of greater frustration. But at least CoE is amusing. CoF... yea, the worst I ever played.

[Elexo]

Heh, I actually liked Sorrow's Embrace. Tied for my favorite dungeon with AC.

But CoF, CM, TA? Dire.

Without hesitation or reservation I would say Citadel of Flame is the worst dungeon I have ever played in an MMO. Extremely dull, nonsense mechanics and crazily buggy. Only COE's bugs were a cause of greater frustration. But at least CoE is amusing. CoF... yea, the worst I ever played.

We're opposites then, I love CoF, story mode has an amazing last boss fight, very fun, felt almost like an old school platformer.

[Fencers]

Ugh, That effigy that basically does nothing for 10 minutes but stomp around. So dull.

So unnecessary.

[nocturnus]

It's more interesting and enjoyable to me than spending half a dungeon downed or trying to figure out what exactly is beating the shit out of me. I thought that GW2's PvE was completely devoid of any kind of organization.

That's probably why you spend half the dungeon downed... I run with a static group and we hardly ever go down, let alone die.

I think the design is close to perfect: good groups clear a dungeon within 40 minutes, earn rewards and earn some coin, bad groups spend 3 hours trying and end up with an empty coin purse.

I do get that others might like the traditional mmo pve style though. GW2 requires constant activity and can be demanding. Trinity games allow you to just stand there spamming 3 buttons while watching youtube. Fun for some, but it bored me to death.

As far as the dungeon's success tells me, many players share my opinion.

[MrSerious]

"There are two main problems that are universal to GW2 dungeon encounters. First: the mechanic that allows players to run back to the encounter after death. Second: no soft or hard enrage timers allow players to disregard dps maximization and autoattack their way to victory. The combination of these two poorly thought out mechanics is extremely frustrating to players who would actually like to differentiate themselves from the crowd and creates a systemic problem that encourages terrible players to gear power/toughness/vit, do terrible dps, and be rewarded for it with success."

that second part is complete rubbish. Sure I will agree that some weak trash mobs will allow you to do this but some mobs stack fury and if you try autoattacking them they will eventually one-shot you. Also some area's (dynamic events) work on a timer or a respawn timer so if you don't maximise your dps then you will quickly be overrun or the timer will run out and you will fail.

honestly sometimes I wonder who writes these quotes, have they played the game?