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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Hey hey, now, it's not their fault they only have two people working on i-- oh wait.
    Hey now Kel, they have 2 people propose the changes, pass it around the office then 2 people fix it.

    That's definitively more then 2 people working on it right?

  2. #522
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Take everything with a grain of salt. They also said they had 5 pages of just proffesion changes for the last patch. Yea that turned out well...
    Ah but zito, maybe on the program they had everything typed up on it was infact 5 pages!!

    EDIT: So yeah, copied and pasted all the prof updates into microsoft word, 9 fucking pages.... so yeah, fuck you zito and kel

    PS: That's single spaced
    Last edited by Durzlla; 2012-12-01 at 04:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  3. #523
    I just did the same for the profession changes-- 5 pages, single spaced.

  4. #524
    I wasn't looking at the number of pages specifically

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I just did the same for the profession changes-- 5 pages, single spaced.
    Huh, i used pages (macs version of microsoft word) and it turns out our pages are shorter then microsofts word xD
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #526
    Take all of the patch notes. All of them. Condense all of the applicable lines into a single instance of "Many tooltips have been updated and corrected".

    How many pages of actual changes are left when you do that?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    How many pages of actual changes are left when you do that?
    8 pages with all flavor text, double space headers and any fix/adjustment that is related to the UI [with no explicit change] removed. Single space, 10.5 point font, Microsoft sans serif.

    So that is exactly 5 pages of profession changes and 3 for general game additions/fixes.

  8. #528
    So now, after an interesting discussion with a french streamer (Mr. Deriv, you should check his stream, he plays GW2 and his pretty awesome ) I can say the problems of the PvE in GW2 can be summed up as such:

    - The impossibility to play iconic RPG tropes such as the defender or the cleric, believe it or not but the impossibility to tank or the nonexistence of viable heals outside of the Guardian class has pushed many players out of the game.

    This is further reinforced by the lack of identity of most skills, and the lack of roles in PvE.

    Back to bed now!

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlBlue View Post
    So now, after an interesting discussion with a french streamer (Mr. Deriv, you should check his stream, he plays GW2 and his pretty awesome ) I can say the problems of the PvE in GW2 can be summed up as such:

    - The impossibility to play iconic RPG tropes such as the defender or the cleric, believe it or not but the impossibility to tank or the nonexistence of viable heals outside of the Guardian class has pushed many players out of the game.

    This is further reinforced by the lack of identity of most skills, and the lack of roles in PvE.

    Back to bed now!
    False!! I play my ranger as a Cleric, not all Clerics are healbots, infact most original clerics only did minor healing inbetween fights. I play my "Cleric" of a Ranger exactly how i play a Druid/Shaman in DnD i give the group some minor support with my heals and spirits, but for the most part i'm dealing death to the enemies.... if only i could throw acorns at people that explode like a grenade...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  10. #530
    In the pure DnD/RPG tradition/culture,

    yes Clerics are healbots .
    Last edited by ControlBlue; 2012-12-09 at 04:29 PM.

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by ControlBlue View Post
    So now, after an interesting discussion with a french streamer (Mr. Deriv, you should check his stream, he plays GW2 and his pretty awesome ) I can say the problems of the PvE in GW2 can be summed up as such:

    - The impossibility to play iconic RPG tropes such as the defender or the cleric, believe it or not but the impossibility to tank or the nonexistence of viable heals outside of the Guardian class has pushed many players out of the game.

    This is further reinforced by the lack of identity of most skills, and the lack of roles in PvE.

    Back to bed now!
    I agree - even though I didn't think I would. The removal of the trinity had me really excited, and I have mentioned in some other threads that I commend them for trying, but it just doesn't work. The lacking "RPG-ness" of GW2 is it's biggest "problem" for me and I think many other players. I have no connection with my character.

  12. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    I agree - even though I didn't think I would. The removal of the trinity had me really excited, and I have mentioned in some other threads that I commend them for trying, but it just doesn't work. The lacking "RPG-ness" of GW2 is it's biggest "problem" for me and I think many other players. I have no connection with my character.
    I will say that i agree with the lack of character connection, idk why but i just don't feel my sylvari as much as i did my ranger in GW1 or other characters in RPGs... than again, my human mesmer i -do- have connections with, so idk how that works...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    I will say that i agree with the lack of character connection, idk why but i just don't feel my sylvari as much as i did my ranger in GW1 or other characters in RPGs... than again, my human mesmer i -do- have connections with, so idk how that works...
    I think that has more to do with how the story was told in GW1 and how your character was connected to it. The mission style system in GW1 is superior to how the story is told in GW2.

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I think that has more to do with how the story was told in GW1 and how your character was connected to it. The mission style system in GW1 is superior to how the story is told in GW2.
    I felt a lot of attachment with my characters and how the story played out in Prophecies/Factions that even with amgKormir in Nightfall I didn't really mind it (my problem with Nightfall was "So for this ultra abandoned god that's had his name wiped from history, it seems everyone knows a lot about him").

    Trahearne didn't really give me that opportunity. At all. If it was Destiny's Edge, I could understand, because you're making bonds alongside one of the members right from the very beginning. Trahearne... him, more than anything else, is why I feel the story fell flat on its face (more than the Mission Based vs. whatever this was based).
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  15. #535
    Well I agree Kel. I should have added that in GW1 the story was about you (except for Kormir in Nightfall, which seems to be how GW2 did their story in a similar fashion). It provided a better connection to your character.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I think that has more to do with how the story was told in GW1 and how your character was connected to it. The mission style system in GW1 is superior to how the story is told in GW2.
    The story forces a voice and personality onto your character, with zero choice from the player. It basically said THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU THINK, HOW YOU FEEL, AND HOW YOU REACT ... which, in an RPG, defeats the purpose. Now on top of that, remove class roles, unique class flavor spells/abilities, unique class quests, factions, and all reputation systems and what you have is a disaster RPG. It just hasn't been working for me, sadly.

  17. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    The story forces a voice and personality onto your character, with zero choice from the player. It basically said THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU THINK, HOW YOU FEEL, AND HOW YOU REACT ... which, in an RPG, defeats the purpose. Now on top of that, remove class roles, unique class flavor spells/abilities, unique class quests, factions, and all reputation systems and what you have is a disaster RPG. It just hasn't been working for me, sadly.
    I agreed with your post until you started saying GW2 removed everything... i play a support role on my ranger, and the amount of support i do is VERY apparent to me -especially- when i play my engineer who is designed to just kill everything and "fuck supporting/controlling!" significantly different playstyle and role...

    However i do agree with the voice thing, that's one reason i don't think i can stand my sylvari, because despite the fact i picked some options i would've done the way he reacted to it was a lot different, whereas with my human he's closer to how i have built his character...

    But that being said, NO rpg gives you any different voice unless you blatantly ignore the quests, ESPECIALLY games like SWTOR where a lot of your "options" are 3 things that do the exact same thing and are worded very similarly. And as kel said, both me and her (as shown from her post) related with our characters from GW1 more and they all had set voices too. However, i -really- enjoyed Nightfall and that was where i felt most of the bond with my character form (granted it was formed already in factions and prophecies).
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  18. #538
    I don't mind having set voices. Sure it would be nice to be able to pick your voice but to me it beats not having a voice. Even though I love Skyrim it was a little jarring to me when my character didn't speak.

    I don't really agree with Jibjubs criteria for an rpg but that's not really the topic here (I'll just add that in my opinion, mmos make terrible RPG's).

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    The story forces a voice and personality onto your character, with zero choice from the player. It basically said THIS IS WHO YOU ARE, WHAT YOU THINK, HOW YOU FEEL, AND HOW YOU REACT ... which, in an RPG, defeats the purpose. Now on top of that, remove class roles, unique class flavor spells/abilities, unique class quests, factions, and all reputation systems and what you have is a disaster RPG. It just hasn't been working for me, sadly.
    If you've ever played any of the Tales games, they are RPGs that have a clearly linear and defined story. From a narrative point of view, I would hardly say it defeats the purpose (especially with how well Tales of Symphonia and Tales of the Abyss were recieved, beautiful beautiful games). There are a lot of unique class flavor spells through utility and elites (as well as the F-keys) in Guild Wars 2, enough for me personally to feel the difference when I'm playing my Mesmer alongside a Guardian or if that's an Elementalist.

    Class Quests is something that takes a lot of time for very very little benefit. A lot of people blow over them and don't remember them later down the road (learn how to resurrect as a Priest! Here's your voidwalker as a Warlock), and the truly big ones that do have an impact leave anyone NOT playing said Class/Profession out in the dirt (Benediction/Anathema comes to mind very quickly).

    Factions can and do work, but the two-faction split thing is arbitrary and often feels dated just for the sake of potentially initiating player combat (but then ignoring it in PvE only servers?). It splits a community for little-to-no reason other than "It worked before guys". Often just creating animosity because one side is blue and the other side is red and they're supposed to hate eachother.

    I'm not saying Guild Wars has done everything right, because it hasn't come even close. But... there are reasons for some of the design decisions that they chose, some of them when a person takes a step back to rationally look at it, make a lot of sense and weren't (or shouldn't have been) headed towards the "disaster RPG".

    Though I do feel sad that your experience with it wasn't enjoyable. Perhaps you will find such a game that is suited to your tastes, just like I'm still looking for mine?
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  20. #540
    I need to clarify -- when I say "voice" I do not mean just the tone and timbre of the voice acting (that is just part of it). I mean Voice, with a capital V ... I am told exactly who my character is and what he is about. All choice is superficial to the point of insult - it would be WAY better to not offer the choice at all if they are of no consequence.

    It's a brand new game (feels like it's still in beta) so I trust ANet will work everything out. Right now, for me, it's a pretty bad game wrapped in a good game package.

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