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  1. #181
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    It probably would be for current level 90 characters and in the form of quest events and/or scenarios.
    Ooh I kinda forgot about them. There's no reason why we can't have scenarios (Or even dungeons I guess) show the war progression in certain zone on Azeroth such as Ashenvale.
    Fact is the 1-60 won't be redone. Either way though it's in the past and isn't concurrent. So in much the same way Dragon Soul changed Dragonblight, we won't see it but we know it's there.
    That may be the best way to show such things.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 10:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pictux View Post
    And how do you know that this will still be the case in the final patch of MOP? There's a lot that's going to happen in between now and then, and I imagine a lot of the upcoming Horde story will be about support for Garrosh beginning to evaporate, as evidence of his tyrannical nature becomes to overwhelming to refute. Given that the Forsaken, Blood Elves, Tauren, Trolls and Goblins do not like / openly hate Garrosh now, it can be safely assumed that it'll be Garrosh's support from the orcs that dwindles.
    I'm not saying it won't evaporate, because I know it does.
    I'm stating that atm the majority of Orcs support him. He was seen as a war hero back then, and his popularity was one of the reasons Thrall chose him. We're still seeing the Orcs support him even after Theramore which left all the other races shocked, meanwhile the Orcs decided to party hard in Orgrimmar.
    The other races don't like him, but they themselves aren't the majority in the Horde - it's the Orcs.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-10-29 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #182
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    I think it'd be difficult for your average Orc not to support Garrosh currently, at least up until the events of 5.1 (trying to kill vol'jin, sending the Kor'Kron to occupy the Echo Isles), which haven't happened yet. Everyone knows that your average Orc isn't particularly clever, and has likely been raised from birth to believe completely in the might of the Horde, and the Warchief's inviolate right to command. The real question for me is, what is Garrosh going to do that's so heinous that it forces the Orcs to look past these ingrained 'values', and see him for what he really is?

  3. #183
    Nope, Alliance doesn't win the War.
    It's almost a victory for the orcs: it means the orcs under Garrosh are so powerful that they can only be defeated by uniting the Alliance, the rest of the Horde races, and a few of the most powerful orcs including the "world shaman".

    So, it's all of Azeroth against a few thousand of regular orcs. And it's going to be a difficult battle, despite the number advantage (by the numbers alone it should be a curbstomp battle).

  4. #184
    Allow me to disagree with the whole victory matter.

    In my opinion it is a total victory for The Alliance for various reasons.

    1)The Rebel Horde are begging for your help to clean up their mess.
    2)You Raze their Heart of Operations ( Orgrimmar) to the ground destroying all their warmachine in the process along with their best generals. After all the Orcs do the most in the Horde.
    3)You managed to defeat them while playing fair and while they tried every dirty trick (Plague,Bombs, Focusing Iris, Divine Bell etc etc) in the book.
    4)You have all the Neutral Faction Armies at your side and their reputation to the rest of Azeroth is destroyed. They will need to work harder in order for Azeroth to trust them again for something.
    5)You kill or dethrone the one responsible for everything.

    Let's be honest. The Rebel Horde will be so few after the Siege of Orgrimmar and on the opposite side they will have to face the Alliance and all the Neutral Faction's armies. They won't really have a much of a choice in the terms of surrender. That's for Thrall to negotiate the less painful terms of surrender.

    About that Cataclysm Quest Revamp. Using the Phase Effects since the Fourth War starts from Cataclysm in the past they should do some phasing to show the results of the peace treaty. If for example land is returned and vice versa they should show it as a phase effect like they did with Theramore.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mails-Prowers View Post
    Let's be honest. The Rebel Horde will be so few after the Siege of Orgrimmar and on the opposite side they will have to face the Alliance and all the Neutral Faction's armies. They won't really have a much of a choice in the terms of surrender. That's for Thrall to negotiate the less painful terms of surrender.
    .
    And you really think Blizzard will do that?
    To kick dirt in the faces of Horde players and be all "haha your losers!"
    Current QQ would look like a small tick compared to the QQ that would unfold if that happened

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 12:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pictux View Post
    I think it'd be difficult for your average Orc not to support Garrosh currently, at least up until the events of 5.1 (trying to kill vol'jin, sending the Kor'Kron to occupy the Echo Isles)
    Sending Kor'kon to watch over a potentially disloyal faction of the Horde is something Thrall even did

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 12:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pictux View Post
    The real question for me is, what is Garrosh going to do that's so heinous that it forces the Orcs to look past these ingrained 'values', and see him for what he really is?
    The Alliance and Horde fight over a bunch of crazy-powerful and dangerous artifacts, could have something to do with those.....
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-10-29 at 12:54 PM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #186
    Oh trust me they will do that if they want to prove they are not Horde biased. They cannot butcher the lore all the time for idiotic game mechanics or some Garrosh fangirls crying about war all the time. It is simply over. Garrosh played and lost and now he and all his supporters will pay the consequences. As I said the Horde won't have much of a choice as they will have to negotiate against the Alliance and all the Neutral Factions for a right person to be in the mantle of Warchief (someone who will not put Azeroth in danger again).

    After all why do you care. You seemed to have fun when The Alliance was QQing and now that you are losing you don't like it. Trust me because of what they have done during Cataclysm they will be obligated to balance it with something equal.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Sending Kor'kon to watch over a potentially disloyal faction of the Horde is something Thrall even did
    Sending Kor'kron to WATCH over a faction is a lot different than sending them to Wipe them out.

  8. #188
    It's more of a moral victory than a military one, since we don't raze Orgrimmar to the ground (as we probably should) but we simply restore a mentally sane leadership in the Horde in preparation of the coming standoff against the Burning Legion.

  9. #189
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    This is a bigger win for the Horde than it is for the Alliance...

    It's a common evil between the two factions, similar to how all the other tier bosses are. Funny how that happens.
    The only reason that it's a victory for the Alliance is that the Horde will (hopefully) now no longer have an incredibly violent leader. That's it.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    Sending Kor'kron to WATCH over a faction is a lot different than sending them to Wipe them out.
    The Kor'kron have been trained to be the finest, most loyal soldiers of the Warchief. Their presence here means that Garrosh fears an uprising.

    Vol'jin and his people are as much a part of the Horde as any orc.

    We must break this occupation and free the trolls. It pains me to say this, but you must eliminate enough of the Kor'kron so that the trolls can retake their city. Then meet me at Darkspear Hold so we might challenge their officer directly

    Where does it say "wipe out"?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    Sending Kor'kron to WATCH over a faction is a lot different than sending them to Wipe them out.
    Ironically, the same kor'kron who use to be loyal to Thrall, now told by Garrosh to segregate the darkspears, throwing there lot in with Garrosh to much when Thrall tells them to stop, they regard him with contempt that he is not longer there leader, and as such Thrall kills them.

    And for one I agree with Draknar. Thrall doesn't wipe them out, he kills those probably most savagely loyal to Garrosh as an example that the gloves are now off, and he's not taking this.
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  12. #192
    Rexxar for Warchief!

    (Too bad he hasn't had any character development since BC...)

  13. #193
    horde doesnt always lose. it goes back and fourth and will forever.

  14. #194
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    Its about time all the war hungry fan boys and girls here wake up to a sobering fact about the 'war' in wow.

    The war in this game will never be won by the other side, that goes for both horde and alliance.

    There will never be an all out victory, alliance will never beat the horde, horde will never beat the alliance.

    It would break the gameplay of this two sided mmo adventure game, and the game makers do not have the resources to make such a massive transition possible in this game.

    The only time there will ever be a victory is from turf wars fought on small fronts, if the game makers design a quest chain around that.

    This is why the current 'war' in the game is moronic, its pitiful that anyone can imagine because they've revved up the conflict, that it will somehow bring about one side beating the others. All it will do is turn up the motor on the engine to full before it burns itself out, and things settle back down on either end.

    Thats all you will get, you will never get to feel like your side is the absolute victor, because the game will not allow for it.

    Now, chew on that thought for a time before you add anything else.
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  15. #195
    Actually Traask they could have tried to follow the Warhammer Online pattern that let's you do quests until a specific point where players decide the outcome. I remember questin with my Warrior Priest and at some point the quests stopped at a stalemate and after that you wrote the epilogue through various battles in various fronts.

  16. #196
    Absolutely the Alliance will win the war. They won't quite force an unconditional surrender and be in position to put the Horde back into internment camps, but that's because you've got good guys like Varian and Baine wanting peace.

    The thing is, the horde players won't be "The Horde." Garrosh's Horde IS the Horde. It will basically be 3 factions: Alliance, Horde (the bad guys), and Horde REBELS (players and everyone else who hates Garrosh). When the Colonies declared war and independence against the British, the King didn't stop being King, and England, last I checked, was still England that war. That's how I see it. Now, to draw more parallels, Alliance will be almost like France in the Revolutionary War, but a step further and much more involved: We know Varian knows the Horde is crumbling and will probably, formally or informally, team up with Baine, Vol'jin and Thrall to really take it into Garrosh in his Orgrimmar.

    I imagine the Horde REBELS will have these guys in-lore; the leaders, the 'champions' (the players), and all the other races combined. Garrosh will have Orcs, small number of loyalists from other races, and lots of weird powerful monsters. Alliance will have everything in disposal, plus the Kirin Tor and possibly Kalecgos. The Alliance AND the Horde REBELS win the war against Garrosh's Horde, with teh Alliance likely comprising the majority of the fighting force.

    I guess I'm hung up with the technicalities.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Yes, the Alliance wins this one.Hordies: lets let um think they won this one so I don't hear complaining from them...

    As an alliance player I agree.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    Edit: I said win the war. Not the battle. Theramore was a battle. Last time I checked alliance didn't surrender and the war was over. Orcs lost the war in warcraft 2 and got put in camps and seems like its happening again.
    I wouldn't call the few battles in MoP a war. They're more like a series of skirmishes.

    Warcraft 1 and 2, those were full scale wars covering entire continents. First the Horde almost wiped out humanity but in the end the betrayal of Gul'dan cost them their victory. It's true that the Alliance won in the end and put the Orcs in camps.

    Compared to the older games, I really can't say MoP is about war. Where are the armies? It's all so insignificant.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    I wouldn't call the few battles in MoP a war. They're more like a series of skirmishes.

    Warcraft 1 and 2, those were full scale wars covering entire continents. First the Horde almost wiped out humanity but in the end the betrayal of Gul'dan cost them their victory. It's true that the Alliance won in the end and put the Orcs in camps.

    Compared to the older games, I really can't say MoP is about war. Where are the armies? It's all so insignificant.
    We won't see the bulk of armies until 5.1 when the faction leaders themselves take charge. 5.0 was about Panda and their problems.

  20. #200
    Thats a way of putting it, The Alliance won the battle killing the warcheif

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