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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    You mean except when we beat the nazi's?
    Ask everyone who lost someone, if they feel they "won".

  2. #42
    I wonder where does the whole "rebellion thing" put players. I mean, you can have an orc character - are you a soldier of Warchief or a rebel? You are Troll, your leader was nearly killed by an ambush organised by the leader of orcs - I guess you aren;t still with Garrosh then, so you are against him? Are players siding with Garrosh, like orcs or goblins (i presume) considered enemies by trolls/blood elves now?

    Quite a mess, i'd say.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    I wonder where does the whole "rebellion thing" put players. I mean, you can have an orc character - are you a soldier of Warchief or a rebel? You are Troll, your leader was nearly killed by an ambush organised by the leader of orcs - I guess you aren;t still with Garrosh then, so you are against him? Are players siding with Garrosh, like orcs or goblins (i presume) considered enemies by trolls/blood elves now?

    Quite a mess, i'd say.
    Even orcs can be against Garrosh. The novel was pretty good in showing that, that the Blackrock Brown Shirts kidnapped and beaten those orcs that were friends of Eitrigg or that didn't like the new regime.

    Garrosh turned the Horde into an authoritarian regime, all up to the use of paramilitary secret police and cult of personality.

  4. #44
    Alliance wins the war? We help a rebellious faction remove their progressively more insane leader, ooh yeah! Fistbump! we get to... clean up the horde's mess, again...

  5. #45
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    And they've managed to develop all other racial leaders because of how this works.
    While agree with everything else you said I do want to make a quick point about this point and the Alliance story in MoP so far . Yes I'm gonna be "that guy" again with this stuff.

    The Alliance isn't getting as much attention of Racial Leaders as the Horde is, which isn't in itself the problem but is linked to it, so don't take this as a "bias" thing, more as a point of reference between the two factions.
    In 5.1 we're seeing 3 characters receiving some sort of major development for each faction for the Horde they include Garrosh, Vol'jin and Lor'themar while on the Alliance side we have Varian, Anduin and Jaina. While Horde are receiving development for 3 racial leaders with the added benefit that they are all from different races. Whereas the Alliance is only receiving development for 1 racial leader and they are all the same race.

    So far while I'm enjoying the story and like the look of 5.1 more,but the lack of diversity in the Alliance story is holding it back from being amazing.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    If your a horde fanboy then you don't understand horde lore for this claim. If you did, you would know that the horde do not work in terms of choosing a leader in the same regards as the alliance do. The one who kills there current warchief is able to make claim to the mantle of warchief, and the horde right away gains a new leader.
    So it is far from the horde losing, the horde is winning because it gains a better leader then the current asshat.
    The Horde getting a better leader doesn't mean jack, we're talking about the outcome of the war here. The Alliance win, The Horde got itself in such a state that it crumbled upon itself and split with loyalists and rebels. Since someone else mentioned Nazis let's go full Godwin in this thread. The Nazi regime and Hitler died at the end of WW2. Did Germany win the war because the war removed an authoritarian regime? Lol no, The Alliance get themselves into Orgrimmar and fuck things up and The Horde has to fight itself. How on earth is it not a comprehensive Alliance victory?

  7. #47
    Gnomes win the war and let horde and rest of alliance suffer in sweet, sweet pain. Entire Azeroth turns pink and all gnomes owns pink love rocket mounts and pink goggles =)
    Your lord is under attack! Your lord is under attack!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    When Garrosh gets dethroned does this mean the alliance wins?

    How is this fair? Horde are always losing wars.

    Edit: I said win the war. Not the battle. Theramore was a battle. Last time I checked alliance didn't surrender and the war was over. Orcs lost the war in warcraft 2 and got put in camps and seems like its happening again.
    unlikely, besides the horde invaded and won the first war, the second the humans won and the third well, that was nothing about orcs vs humans anyways Funny to see a horde saying they loose :P
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    I try not to post anywhere anymore, due to fear of being infracted. Feels like there are too many mods that aren't screened well enough. "Dirty cops" if you will.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Except the gnomes.

    (sorry, I couldn't resist) *snicker*
    I think I saw a gnome in a cut scene, so it is a step up for them!
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  10. #50
    Tyrande is getting some screen time as well, Scummer.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Tyrande is getting some screen time as well, Scummer.
    Not as much as I'd hope. She is there, but she isn't one of the main leaders being developed. For Horde I could also raise you Baine and Thrall .
    We've heard Varian mention Velen which is fantastic, but we will have to wait and see.

    No matter how you look at it the development for the Horde is a little more diverse atm.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Not as much as I'd hope. She is there, but she isn't one of the main leaders being developed. For Horde I could also raise you Baine and Thrall .
    We've heard Varian mention Velen which is fantastic, but we will have to wait and see.

    No matter how you look at it the development for the Horde is a little more diverse atm.
    We also know from reddit and Best Buy chats that Sylvannas will play a role before the end and Rexxar as well. I will agree that the Horde is getting far more diverse development of all its leaders and it seems like the entirety of the Horde is being drawn into it while we're rallying entirely behind Varian, but I'm still diggin' the vibe this time around.

    I still wish they had die hard Alliance enamored developer on the writing team that took the stage at Blizzcon panels and we'd see Blizz vs Blizz shots and stingers thrown back and forth in good fun!
    Last edited by Faroth; 2012-10-27 at 02:59 PM.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Tyrande is getting some screen time as well, Scummer.
    She'd better off without it, all she says is "why are we waiting let's attack" whilst The Horde are obviously waiting in ambush and Varian tells her to calm her shit. She's a pretty diabolical character now.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    We also know from reddit and Best Buy chats that Sylvannas will play a role before the end and Rexxar as well. I will agree that the Horde is getting far more diverse development of all its leaders and it seems like the entirety of the Horde is being drawn into it while we're rallying entirely behind Varian, but I'm still diggin' the vibe this time around.
    In 5.1 Audio it sounds like Varian is changing a bit. He is seeing the errors in his ways, possibly because of Garrosh wrong doing?
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  15. #55
    Banned SL1200's Avatar
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    In the game, alliance groups will kill Garrosh, but in the lore it wont be the alliance defeating the horde.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    We also know from reddit and Best Buy chats that Sylvannas will play a role before the end and Rexxar as well. I will agree that the Horde is getting far more diverse development of all its leaders and it seems like the entirety of the Horde is being drawn into it while we're rallying entirely behind Varian, but I'm still diggin' the vibe this time around.
    I'm still enjoying it too. I'm not saying it's bad or that one story is entirely better than the other, I'm just unhappy with the lack of real diversity of the Alliance atm. It's good, but it's not flawless either.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    She'd better off without it, all she says is "why are we waiting let's attack" whilst The Horde are obviously waiting in ambush and Varian tells her to calm her shit. She's a pretty diabolical character now.
    Yeah, it did feel like she's kinda getting another "Hush, Tyrande" moment. We'll see. It's PTR and they've had sound files they don't use before. /wishfulthinkingfingerscrossed
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I'm still enjoying it too. I'm not saying it's bad or that one story is entirely better than the other, I'm just unhappy with the lack of real diversity of the Alliance atm. It's good, but it's not flawless either.
    Before MoP (or perhaps Cata), the Horde was united behind a Warchief, a strong central power. The Alliance, on the other hand, had no strong central commander. As Wrathion points out, Varian didn't do a lot during Cataclysm. In MoP, we see the Horde central power disintegrating and racial leaders getting more light. In contrast, we see the Alliance building up a strong central leadership, so it is normal that Varian gets more attention, at least in patch 5.1.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-27 at 04:23 PM ----------

    Let's see where this is going.

    The goal of this was, for Garrosh, is the complete annihilation of the Alliance and total control of Kalimdor for the Horde.
    For the Alliance, it is to defend and destroy Garrosh.

    For what we see now, the Horde won't achieve its goal. It will get divided against itself and they will even need the Alliance to depose Garrosh. They will lose a leader and the new one will have a lot of rebuilding to do. On the other hand, the Alliance will succeed in defending its territories and Garrosh will be killed, deposed, well at least he won't be warchief anymore. The people of the Horde gets rid of a tyrannical leader, but actualy wins nothing against the Alliance. So it seems that the Alliance wins that war.

    Well, as far as we know. There's a couple more patches before we lay siege on Orgrimmar.
    Last edited by Frontenac; 2012-10-27 at 04:25 PM.

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Before MoP (or perhaps Cata), the Horde was united behind a Warchief, a strong central power. The Alliance, on the other hand, had no strong central commander. As Wrathion points out, Varian didn't do a lot during Cataclysm. In MoP, we see the Horde central power disintegrating and racial leaders getting more light. In contrast, we see the Alliance building up a strong central leadership, so it is normal that Varian gets more attention, at least in patch 5.1
    I do not doubt Varian needs lore, in fact I'm very happy that he's receiving the story he's getting - that of a good uniting leader. But there is space for more character development and there is need of non-human development. If he's supposed to be uniting the Alliance then it shouldn't be just limited to Tyrande being told that she made a boo boo about her battle tactics.

    No I'd like to see Velen show up with Anduin. I'd like to see Muradin leading a Dwarf Brigade with his brother Brann as they discover further titan artifacts. I'd like to see Mekkatorque show up with a bad ass robot and blow the Horde to bits and show that his people can do more directly in the conflict. I want to see Genn being more involved with Varian as the two people and races clicked with each other at the end of Wolfheart.

    Varian getting development is great. But it shouldn't be all about him, especially if his story is meant to directly involve him getting support from the other leaders.

    (Sorry if it sounds like I'm bashing the Alliance story, I'm really not. There are just some annoying flaws atm that are preventing a good story from being a great story)
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-10-27 at 06:20 PM.

  20. #60
    I've come to the point as an Alliance player where i give up on the lore the lore team writes ^.^

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