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  1. #1

    Helping a random pug...

    So I was just posting a reply in someone elses thread about idiots who flame people etc in instances,

    and it reminded me of one time in cata we were in sfk,

    Basically me 2 guildies, 2 pugs

    1 healer was a pug newly hit 85 wasn't great and let us die a few times but he was trying,

    Anyways other pug blasted him, we had enough and we had a go at this pug with everything we could to fault him and he left,

    So the healers was grateful and we spent the next 3-4 hours running heroics with him to get him gear, even though we hit our weekly cap after 1/2

    He was a new player and had always had hate from lfd groups so he was grateful.

    Now thats the broken down story otherwise It would of been a huge chunk of text, I've found since LFD was introduced, if you get another guild in say 3/5 4/5 then nearly all of the time their bunch of arseholes, who think their better than you because their there as a group and your alone, this is what this pug healer was expecting us to be like as he was failing, the last thing he expected was for us to take his side and spend our free time helping a complete stranger for free,

    I remember back in TBC, on my server atleast, that if you were in a heroic and were failing that the majority of the time people would help you so they could finish the run, and because of LFD and Real ID invites it just doesn't happen any more,

    So my question is, when did you last help someone out, properly not just direct them to a website? and what did you do to help them? did you keep in touch? add them on real ID? recruited them down the line? or are you the opposite that has no time for learners and you kick them in hopes to get a better person to speed up the run as it ultimately doesn't affect you?

  2. #2
    During a scenario, I will explain but not during a raid. If you are doing a raid, you are supposed to know your character.
    Quote Originally Posted by DemoBytom View Post
    But well - you don't really eat something that speaks to you, is part of "your people"

  3. #3
    If you can't look something as simple as wow up yourself you are rarely worth the time and effort it would take to educate you.

    So no, unless it's something that I can say in a few sentences I never bother.

  4. #4
    Usually, any time anyone asks in trade where someone, or something is, I'll tell them, and if it's near me, carry them to it in a two seater mount.

    I get really god damned sick of people responding to people who have questions with "www.google.com" or "www.wowhead.com". What a dickish and asinine thing to do. So I try to help people with the small questions every chance I get.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    These days I'm quite /carepolice in LFD, it doesn't matter for me since I always do 50% of group's damage on my Hunter, runs always go fast.

  6. #6
    Most times the Advise I get from a PUG is so bad, that I just ignore it. Since Open Beta when I started playing, I can say I have received real advice from someone as a PUG maybe a handful of times.

    Gratz taking the time to help out other people.

    @sigmundo: What is the difference between reading a blog by a random person who may or may not play, as opposed to a player that is there at that time. Answer - There isn't.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmundo View Post
    If you can't look something as simple as wow up yourself you are rarely worth the time and effort it would take to educate you.

    So no, unless it's something that I can say in a few sentences I never bother.
    You shouldn't even have to look anything up :x That's very bad game design in 2012 :x That was very bad game design in 2004 :x That was very bad game design in like 1998 :x

    The game is a piss poor teacher of any of it's mechanics. Like, man, all the game tells you about reforging is an absurdly vague loading screen tooltip. All of those little things. What you should gem. What enchants you need. Especially since a lot of it doesn't even make logical sense outside of WoW.

    You expect way too much of people from a damned game, and treat them like shit for not fitting your standards? That's just wrong if you do.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lootem View Post
    Most times the Advise I get from a PUG is so bad, that I just ignore it. Since Open Beta when I started playing, I can say I have received real advice from someone as a PUG maybe a handful of times.

    Gratz taking the time to help out other people.

    @sigmundo: What is the difference between reading a blog by a random person who may or may not play, as opposed to a player that is there at that time. Answer - There isn't.
    The person who wrote the blog can reach thousands of people by explaining it once. I would have to explain it a thousand times.

    He also gets compensated by ad revenue.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmundo View Post
    If you can't look something as simple as wow up yourself you are rarely worth the time and effort it would take to educate you.

    So no, unless it's something that I can say in a few sentences I never bother.
    And this post encapsulates what is wrong with the "community". Elitist and making false assumptions at the same time. Trust me, the community won't be poorer with a few newbies in it but it is poorer with people like you in it.

  10. #10
    As a member of the deaf community, I learned a long time ago how tough things could get in the game. Anyone who sees my Armory asks why I have little to no raid experience. I got invited to a raid back in classic, my first shot at Molten Core. The raid leader kept screaming at me telling me to get into Ventrillo or gtfo of his raid. I tried to explain how I could not use Vent and he just laughed and kicked me from the raid. All but 3 people dropped his raid and formed a new one inviting me back in. We wiped several time in the course of 3 hours, but had such a great time.

    Now, when it comes time for a raid or dungeon, I realize that not everyone has the gear or the skill to succeed and might need some help. I remember tanking the Theramore Scenario the day it opened close to 11 times back to back just so my guildies could go in and see it without the risk of dying. (or get rezzed/healed if they did) People need to be more considerate of others and stop allowing anonymity to be an excuse for being an asshat.

  11. #11
    To me it is very simple. Flaming someone does not help. Guidance does. I would rather add to the game and make it a better place. One way of doing that is helping others.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 11:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    And this post encapsulates what is wrong with the "community". Elitist and making false assumptions at the same time. Trust me, the community won't be poorer with a few newbies in it but it is poorer with people like you in it.
    If this post had a "Like" button, I would spam it. Well said!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    And this post encapsulates what is wrong with the "community". Elitist and making false assumptions at the same time. Trust me, the community won't be poorer with a few newbies in it but it is poorer with people like you in it.
    It's better in the long term if he learns to look things up himself instead of relying on strangers for info. Would you trust a guy from LFD over elitist jerks or mmo-champ? If he wants to be buddy buddies that's fine but nobody should feel entitled to stranger's help.

  13. #13
    I understand your point of view Sigmundo, and I won't go so far as to say you're arrogant or an elitist because I don't know you. There's a difference between having that mindset and just not taking the time or effort to explaining, or flatly refusing to help someone and spewing garbage at them when they don't meet your expectations.

    I have always been willing to offer advice to newb players in dungeons, granted I know the class and what I'm talking about. If they seem like someone who is willing to learn, I'll sit and talk with em. If they get offended by what I say, I keep quiet and finish the run. I always try to answer questions in trade before anyone gives a snide remark and starts a trollfest for the next 3 hours.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmundo View Post
    nobody should feel entitled to stranger's help.
    That's just it. We don't go out of our way to help the "entitled". We go out of our way to help those who need it and never ask for it. Doing something good for someone because they ask is nice. Doing something nice for someone when they don't ask is amazing.

  15. #15
    i often plow heroics to cap valor on wednesdays with 3 other guildies. We are always nice to peeps

  16. #16
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    You shouldn't even have to look anything up :x That's very bad game design in 2012 :x That was very bad game design in 2004 :x That was very bad game design in like 1998 :x

    The game is a piss poor teacher of any of it's mechanics. Like, man, all the game tells you about reforging is an absurdly vague loading screen tooltip. All of those little things. What you should gem. What enchants you need. Especially since a lot of it doesn't even make logical sense outside of WoW.

    You expect way too much of people from a damned game, and treat them like shit for not fitting your standards? That's just wrong if you do.
    The game is poorly designed in that regards. Even your basic stat information is hidden unless you open it (stays open after that but still it should be open by default). I reforge my wife's gear and if it wasn't for me she likely wouldn't enchant or gem her gear either (well she might gem since she's a JC but she never remembers what gems to use). Not to mention a guildie asked me what prismatic gem to use in a prismatic slot and he's a pretty decent player, but if you don't read outside sources sometimes its hard to figure these things out in game.

    There should be an academy in game that you can go to from time to time to learn or relearn your class/spec. Have daily quests that use different spells for your class (DOT,CC,Defensive CDs, etc...) and explain why you failed. But this will never happen as it would be a huge development sink with very little return for blizzard.

    Even if they had an in game class guide it would be extremely helpful (a massive step up from there current these 4-6 abilities are the heart of your class)

  17. #17
    High Overlord Bopcommander's Avatar
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    I help out whenever I have the time/chance to. I've been on my server for a long time, so people know my name, and a couple times a week a mage will come to me asking for help. I've read forums, blogs, sit on target dummies, run LFR just for practicing and being and doing the best that I can and they know this. I will have them come into my vent and talk with me. I'll run a heroic, LFR, or just sit on a target dummy with them and figure out what I can do to improve them, explain what I do on a boss encounter, and ask what they do to max their dps. I'm not the best of the best, but I can help put input where they didn't think about it previously. I don't do this everytime, but I try to when I can.

    On a side note...
    Everyday I run a random heroic for the easy Valor Points on all 3 of my 90's. If anyone re-ques I'll join. I don't need the gear on any of my toons. But I notice a huge difference when I'm on my main character a 496 mage, compared to my alts who are 470ish. My mage roughly does 50% of the damage. People always ask to do more. So I do. People are always chatty with me. Say "Hey nice dps Bop." "Nice damage." even a "How are you?" I never get this on my alts.

    When I'm on either of my alts, though not geared like my main I preform the same. I chain pull with my tank, and watch the healers mana give him/her innervate on CD. Popping my CD's on cooldown to help the healer and plow mobs down. My shaman I keep everyone topped off and she'll dps, sometimes even beating a dps in damage, yet I don't get the same respect as I do when I'm on my main character. I think people will see your gear and just blow you off regardless of them thinking they are "carrying" you. And it's always the person not doing anything is the one talking smack to everyone. I get the feeling, people will see your alts and only see 3 purples and assume this guy is a POS, I'm not going to do anything to help him.

    I dunno, this is just my 2 cents.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dryankem View Post
    The game is poorly designed in that regards. Even your basic stat information is hidden unless you open it (stays open after that but still it should be open by default). I reforge my wife's gear and if it wasn't for me she likely wouldn't enchant or gem her gear either (well she might gem since she's a JC but she never remembers what gems to use). Not to mention a guildie asked me what prismatic gem to use in a prismatic slot and he's a pretty decent player, but if you don't read outside sources sometimes its hard to figure these things out in game.

    There should be an academy in game that you can go to from time to time to learn or relearn your class/spec. Have daily quests that use different spells for your class (DOT,CC,Defensive CDs, etc...) and explain why you failed. But this will never happen as it would be a huge development sink with very little return for blizzard.

    Even if they had an in game class guide it would be extremely helpful (a massive step up from there current these 4-6 abilities are the heart of your class)
    What's really shocking is pretty much every casual player I've ever known didn't even know reforging existed. Like, at all... and you can't be mad at them for that. It's really poorly implemented. But you just know that there's people here, and in WoW, who are going to treat them like total garbage for Blizzard's poor designs.

  19. #19
    Warchief Frolk's Avatar
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    After many years ive learned to see the difference from some new player that tries his best and one thats a complete moron
    The new players i help as much as i can with tips for talents, glyphs, rotation, tactics etc
    And for the moron thats to dumb or to stubborn to learn i just cba with

    OT: I did the same back when i played Diablo2, used to to MF runs mainly to later on make games named like "Free stuff" and gear up ppl that benefited from the gear, was giving it away or vendoring it
    I put the laughter in manslaughter
    Blood DK problems: to many ppl at daily place, cant pull 8packs *cries*
    BF3>CoD Cola>Pepsi PC>Mac Xbox>PS3

  20. #20
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    What's really shocking is pretty much every casual player I've ever known didn't even know reforging existed. Like, at all... and you can't be mad at them for that. It's really poorly implemented. But you just know that there's people here, and in WoW, who are going to treat them like total garbage for Blizzard's poor designs.
    I know, I'd be frightened to look at the armory of some of my guildies. Even the new reforger in pandaira is tucked in a dark corner, at least for the alliance. It's one of those things you run by going WTF is that and you if you looked at the void storage first you would scratch your head and just leave.

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