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  1. #1

    Can we agree, multiple raid difficulties killed some of the epicness of raiding?

    Now hear me out on this.

    Can we all agree that having multiple raid difficulties (we now have 4), killed some of the epicness that raiding originally provided the players?

    I mean, back in WoTLK, and TBC, there was 1 difficulty. In WoTLK, fights started to have different ways to defeat the encounters that made them harder, but still, there was 1 difficulty.

    When you entered Karazhan for the first time, it was epic, because 1) you had to have a key to get in, 2) there was only one difficutly, so you know when you beat a boss, you beat it. There was no higher difficulty to have to go kill. You didnt have this do it on LFR, then do it on Normal, then do it on Heroic, then Do the EXACT SAME FUCKING BOSS on Mythic.

    I think having 4 difficulties takes away from the epicness that the raids once provided. It diminishes the grand scale and epic feeling that only one difficulty mode had. Does that make sense? Do you feel this way? Does completing a boss on a higher difficulty that you already killed on a lower difficulty feel as rewarding as it did in TBC when you killed the boss once and it was done? You passed that challenge, you killed that boss. Done.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    Immortal Mokoshne's Avatar
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    so many raid difficulties per week encourages burn out that i think alot of the player base is reeling from right now in this content drought.
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  3. #3
    If they did that, the difficulty would not be mythic. And if it's not mythic I would finish the content in 1-3 weeks. So..... no.
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    What?! They said soon? Well you dont hear that everyday, I dont know about you guys but that has put my mind at total rest.

  4. #4
    1000000 threads exactly like this

  5. #5
    I agree with the thread title.

    Back when I first started playing in Vanilla (but not at launch), I saw raiders in their cool gear and it inspired me to learn to play the game better so that I could do what they were doing.

    The current spread of difficulties makes that concept moot and certainly undermines the wow factor of raid gear. I think having things to aspire too is a good thing as long as the game has enough going on elsewhere.

  6. #6
    I think there should be a LFR, call it story mode, which provides no reward (maybe something like apexis or justice points), and only 1 difficulty with increasing difficulty from first boss to last. First boss -> Mannoroth normal difficulty, last boss -> archimonde mythic difficulty. First half or so could be pugged by a good group.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Sir Andy's Avatar
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    Get rid of normal or heroic.

    Raid Finder is for plebs and Mythic is for the best. We don't need two medium difficulties.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    1000000 threads exactly like this
    Nobady cares. This forum can hanndle millions of threads if you dont like it jsut dont *** read it. And yes having muplite difficulty content causes burn out. Devalues raiding content and force non raiders into raiding. Also since raids become very acessible there is pretty much no reason to create any other content then raids. If raids would become again exclusive we would see again more empahis on the world. As long as raids become mandatory, easy and acessible people will force themself into raids and get bored.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Now hear me out on this.

    Can we all agree that having multiple raid difficulties (we now have 4), killed some of the epicness that raiding originally provided the players?

    I mean, back in WoTLK, and TBC, there was 1 difficulty. In WoTLK, fights started to have different ways to defeat the encounters that made them harder, but still, there was 1 difficulty.

    When you entered Karazhan for the first time, it was epic, because 1) you had to have a key to get in, 2) there was only one difficutly, so you know when you beat a boss, you beat it. There was no higher difficulty to have to go kill. You didnt have this do it on LFR, then do it on Normal, then do it on Heroic, then Do the EXACT SAME FUCKING BOSS on Mythic.

    I think having 4 difficulties takes away from the epicness that the raids once provided. It diminishes the grand scale and epic feeling that only one difficulty mode had. Does that make sense? Do you feel this way? Does completing a boss on a higher difficulty that you already killed on a lower difficulty feel as rewarding as it did in TBC when you killed the boss once and it was done? You passed that challenge, you killed that boss. Done.

    Discuss.
    No they didn't, LK started with 2 difficulties.

    Then it gained 4 difficulties based on completing certain fight events.

    Then it had 4 difficulties based on a switch.

    The biggest problem with it being that the 4 difficulties based on a switch were all on a different CD so if you really were a hard-core raider you raided 4 times in a week, normal 10, heroic 10, normal 25, heroic 25. This was for valor points, trinkets and eventually tier.

    Cataclysm turned those 4 difficulties into 2 since 10 and 25 no longer dropped different loot and heroic and normal now shared a CD. Then at the end they brought out LFR.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Andy View Post
    Get rid of normal or heroic.

    Raid Finder is for plebs and Mythic is for the best. We don't need two medium difficulties.
    This makes sense. They could definitely scale the first X bosses of a raid to be similarly difficult to current 'normal', and have the last X bosses be scaled to what is now 'heroic'. Then we would only need 1 middle difficulty, but not progress too quickly through the content.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Sir Andy's Avatar
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    Another thing, comparing Mythic bosses to LFR bosses is going full retard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi
    Thx America for destroying Europe and world and all mess you cause bcs of your selfishness and only thinking abot yourself and of your interest, creating IS, killing in the name of democracy, etc etc...

  12. #12
    I wish there was one difficulty, and "raid tools" were broken. If you
    can do the dance before the boss enrages or the healers run out
    of mana, you win.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Bosses in Mythic have extra mechanics that can completely change the fight from normal or heroic.

    For example Xhul'horac, he spawns both mini-bosses pretty much from the start. Or Gorefiend having Souls to deal with from Shadow of Death for each player going inside.

    Mannoroth also had massive changes, with the order of the pillars being destroyed when phases trigger. In Normal/Heroic, he first destroys the Doomguard pillar(before actual boss is even active), then Imps and then Infernal, also the order of the pillars destroyed is from hardest to easiest to deal with.

    In Mythic the fight stats with all 3 pillars up, first pillar to get destroyed is the Infernals, which is by far the easiest to deal with. At 35% he destroys the second pillar, Doomlord. That means in the last 35%, you still have to deal with Imps, which also are changed from normal/heroic, so they have to be nuked down before they blow the entire raid up.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Now hear me out on this.

    Can we all agree that having multiple raid difficulties (we now have 4), killed some of the epicness that raiding originally provided the players?

    I mean, back in WoTLK, and TBC, there was 1 difficulty. In WoTLK, fights started to have different ways to defeat the encounters that made them harder, but still, there was 1 difficulty.
    Jaylol I will grant you this, this is probably the most reasonable thing I've seen you post in a long, long time.

    I will contend that LK had multiple difficulties from the outset and anyone who did them while they were current would likely agree - there's a world of difference between Sarth vs. Sarth+3.... and Yogg+4 vs. Yogg+0. Were they as extensive as a full heroic mode? No, but you can see the seeds there and there was definitely a 'normal' and 'hard' mode.

    Now I will say I like the model of progression through tiers over progression within the tier, but your problem is the people who LFR are made for are not going to be content with running Karazahn forever (well, okay, *I* would be content with running Karazahn forever, I led 1-2 full pugs every week right until prepatch landed for LK, but I am an exception).

    I'd like to see a mix of the LK/BC model where you go through the tiers, but the old raid gets nerfed hard when the new one comes out (and presumably the fancier rewards get moved from 100% to 1% drop as is the current custom), so there is catch up built in and appropriate difficulty for those who want it.

    Basically, yeah, 4 difficulties feels lazy and boring to me, but 4 difficulties isn't built for me. If you want to remove LFR you have to have a real substitute for it.

  15. #15
    I agree with Jaylock. How does it happen?

  16. #16
    YES

    I hope blizz at least set shared ID for all difficulties. I just don't want to gear on Normal so I can gear on Heroic so I - already burnt - can do Mythic. LFR is abomination but for ca$$ual'$ $ake it should be kept. For me, the best solution would be: LFR with all but last boss and Normal with Hard Modes. It was the best. I don't buy "hurr durr we would run out of ideas to trigger hard modes" argument - imagination has no limits.

    E: Oh, I got jaylocked...

  17. #17
    Moderator Djriff's Avatar
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    I'd much prefer normal and heroic again. Have heroic be set to 20, and normal be flexible up to 40. I like what they did in MoP with MSV, HoF, and ToES being progressive raids. If they did more patches like that I think people would be happier. Currently having Normal, Heroic, and Mythic feels like poop. It's nice if I need a particular item and I have 3 chances to get it. The burnout is real though.
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  18. #18
    There are only 4 difficulties in raiding for a small portion of the community. To someone that never does Normal+ there is just LFR. LFR for anyone NOT an LFR Raider is no longer a factor as you aren't farming tier or trinkets from it while doubling down on whatever difficulty is on farm and then the difficulty you're progressing in. At most, people are focusing on 2 difficulties these days.

    The difficulty that is on farm and the one they are actively progressing on. At this point removing a difficulty will just alienate a part of the community that does that difficulty, and either gets no challenge from the one under, or doesn't have the time/skill to do the one above it. You could just say "Get good" or "More people will just go to the next one up" but that's not how the community works these days. Look at how much backlash there was when the highest difficulty could no longer be done in 10 man.

  19. #19
    The Insane Taftvalue's Avatar
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    oh yes, we can

    keep LFR for the lowest common denominator crowd and Mythic for real raiding

    Normal and Heroic serve only to water down organized raiding

    and Mythic needs way more rewards that are unique and desirable, exclusive transmogs that are only avaiable while the content is current/relevant for example
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  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Sir Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    oh yes, we can

    keep LFR for the lowest common denominator crowd and Mythic for real raiding

    Normal and Heroic serve only to water down organized raiding

    and Mythic needs way more rewards that are unique and desirable, exclusive transmogs that are only avaiable while the content is current/relevant for example
    They already do. Raid Finder gear looks like shit this expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darchi
    Thx America for destroying Europe and world and all mess you cause bcs of your selfishness and only thinking abot yourself and of your interest, creating IS, killing in the name of democracy, etc etc...

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