1. #1

    Post your ideas how to improve Rogue gameplay here!

    Well, i have been playing rogue for long time, but now i feel that my class got completely forgotten. We got no realy fun changes in MoP, which makes me think if they dont have any plans to actualy revamppm rogue (i heard it few times from not realy realiable sources).
    Soo i was thinking how they could change it:

    Combat:

    I would completely remove or atleast nerf SaD for start (maybe change it into some extra dmg +10 or 20%?) or for duration u will stack some DoT (like old deep wounds?)
    I would nerf energy regen from haste, to balance this change i would like to see having Sinister strike changed... and yes haste would reduce global CD on sinister strike aswell, to make stat still valuable. Combat potency would remain same.
    Sinister strike: An instant strike that causes 222 damage in addition to 110% of your normal weapon damage. Generates 5 energy.
    Awards 1 combo point.
    Reaveling strike: An instant strike that deals 200% weapon damage with BOTH weapons and exposes the target's vulnerabilities, increasing the effectiveness of your offensive finishing moves on that target by 35%, and giving your Sinister Strikes a 20% chance to generate an extra combo point, for 30?? sec. Awards 1 combo points. Cooldown 5?? sec

    Riposte!(comeback): Vicious strike dealing 150% dmg +500 with both weapons. Dmg is increased by 20%? if target is under effect of reaveling strike. Cost 40 energy. Awards 1 combo point.
    As you can see this would completely be in favor in having 2 slow weapons (as many rogues wish already). Proc chance on deadly poison would be depending on weapons speed.

    Didnt realy had any interesting ideas about others specs, but i would REMOVE SaD completely and reduce cost of combo building abilities, and maybe even removed cost of energy from finishers. And i would merge backstab with hemo... into Stab?. Just basicly buff hemo a bit in dmg, making it deal some Dmg over time, and having some extra crit chance if you are from behind.

    Sorry for mistakes i made this isnt my mother language.
    And please share your opinion.
    Cheers.
    Last edited by Veresa; 2012-10-27 at 11:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord AceofHarts's Avatar
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    right now two slow weapons is superior to slow/fast as is.
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  3. #3
    Off the top of my head, not that i get paid to do this.

    - I would remove slice and dice and rupture.
    - I would lower combo points to 3
    - i would hire a new design team and sack the old, then i would associate mop rogues to those designers for any reference those designers ever needed.
    - i would like abilitys to either use combo points or energy, not both
    - i would like shadow step to do an ambush baked in for sub
    - i would like poison damage to be a proc that is applied in combat
    - i would give shadow step a glyph exactly like vanish
    - i would like our combat to use a flurry mechanic which called for a multiple choice of abilitys to be used to speed up things, pick the right one fast enough and you get a massive pay off.

    At the game level i would make it so targets take time to turn around and face you, not auto blink face you so you cant use abilitys. if that cant be done then remove the requirement to be behind all together.

    For shadow blades i would add some fricken shadows to our fricken blades, i would have them drenched in shadows dripping shadows all over the camp, evil looking dagger shaped, dripping with the blood of mary popins, it skips all armour! its the most powerful melee ability in game. now we aint very powerful atm but if we gave it to warriors i bet people would shit a brick.

    If i was in charge i would make it so while in combat if you preformed quick enough and reacted quick enough you could use any ability in your arsenal of tools things like a 1 second reaction or less and your favorite cooldown comes off, or maybe your next finisher is free, anything to speed up the gameplay.

  4. #4
    The problems are deeper than just changing abilities; as I see it, the class needs to be reexamined at its roots and overhauled from there. I'm not sure I want to go into how exactly you'd do that. It's a lot of work.

  5. #5
    I'd start by revamping the talent trees and glyphs to make them comparable to mages without murdering the uniqueness aspect of each spec.

    And Shadowstep baseline because it feels rogue-like enough for all specs.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    The problems are deeper than just changing abilities; as I see it, the class needs to be reexamined at its roots and overhauled from there. I'm not sure I want to go into how exactly you'd do that. It's a lot of work.
    This, essentially. Is the rogue a brawler? Well, no, that's fury warriors. Oh, so it's a ninja? Well, actually, that's monks. So I guess that makes them shadowy assassins? Yeah!...well, for the two seconds after emerging from stealth. Ok, so what are they after that? Um,...stabby stunny guys?

    My suggestions:
    No more slice and dice. Spells like this or inquisition are so boring and frustrating; bake the high attack speed in or balance without it.
    Keep 5 combo points. Rogues should never be cooldown based like retadins, nor should they be like pallys/monks/spriests with 3 combo points. I suppose something like boomkin eclipses could work, but the point is spending energy to work up to a big 5 combo point 'boom' really gives the feeling of a rogue.

  7. #7
    well my first changes would be to nerf SnD, buff active damage to compensate, increase the base energy regen to 15e/s, and nerf the added energyregen that happens through Haste to compensate that.
    i.e : shift damage to active damage, and make the class less dependent on haste for a bit of performance.
    I think that would fix the majority of issues with the class for a lot of people, and it is a fix for both PvP and PvE.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  8. #8

    How i would do it.

    This would require an expansion probably, as it would completely change the class :P parts are influenced form things ive read on these forums

    Assassination:
    -The only spec that uses poisons.
    -Poisons are no longer a long term "buff"
    -combo point builders apply short term poison buffs (Due to this combo points stack on the rogue rather than the target) and pseduo alchemy style potions.
    -Poisons have different effects such as damage/DoT snare/stun, debuffs on the target, potentially self healing with it.
    -Finishers change based on the poisons applied (things such as applying a concentrated version of said poisons to one target or a longer lasting version of the same poison (this would be the difference between a direct damage to the target, or causing each of your hits to apply a weaker poison damage. or between a stun to the target, or a longer duration snare) , a weaker version to multiple targets through a poison gas.
    -high DPS, decent "on call" burst, but you have to work up to it
    -can have up to 10 poisons applied, although only 5 can be used per finisher
    -I'd like to see mutilate have various potions/poisons that provide utility. Drink a poison to build resistance to nature damage (takes 10% of my HP and gives me x% resistance to nature/magic damage for x seconds). Drink a poison that makes your body work harder, gaining more run speed at the cost of x health or y health per second.

    Combat:
    -Only spec that uses slice and dice
    -Main focus revolves around energy regeneration.
    -Each auto attack that lands regenerates energy, although base energy regeneration is lowered dramatically. potentially gain energy based on dodges/parries.
    -All finishers consume all energy, but increase in effectiveness based on the energy consumed. Due to this as the fight goes on your DPS will increase (as combat is a spec based on actual out of stealth fighting) while capping off at a point when you can afford to do 100 energy slice and dices (at which point you would have the maximum energy regeneration)
    -CP builders as well as finishers that focus around survivability (kinda like combat readiness) as well as the return of repost (or a similar strike to be used after you are parried/dodged, or after you have been parried/dodged)
    -less around keeping things up such as rupture/revealing strike, more about -now- damage.
    -Drop blade flurry, I love its existence but it’s a rather boring mechanic (second target near you? press this one button and forget about it). Gain 2-3 target combo point builders (probably the type that does, say, 80% damage each, with 3 targets it does 70%)
    -Since we are talking "combos", and some of the best involve multiple people, I’d love to see a way to allow you to do single target attacks on multiple people are part of the same combo. I'd like it to be more interesting, but this could be as simple as having redirect have no CD for combat
    -Combat steals a mastery similar to sub's, it’s what allows their finishers to be more effective per energy used.

    Sub:
    -4th bar! mechanic similar to demonology warlocks. As you perform finishers, you build up a "shadows" meter. Whenever you so decide you can "slip into the shadows" gaining resistance to AoEs, potentially increased evasion, armor penetration (replacement for "find weakness") and most importantly, allows stealthed abilities to be used out.
    -Mastery increases the effectiveness of the AoE resistance, armor pen, and potential evasion increase. maybe increases the duration per point (harder to balance, not likely)
    -I'd like to see a finisher that puts you into actual stealth for x seconds. could be too OP in pvp
    -I'd like to see sub have more situational "toys" like smoke bomb.
    -Sub would have the best burst, but likely lowest actual DPS.

    all 3 specs would have their best situations, and would play very differently.

    Assassination would be about managing your poisons, using the right poisons for the right situation. It should keep a similar feel to managing your combo points. While a high DPS spec, due to combo points stacking on you as opposed to your targets it’s a great candidate for fights where you stay on the boss the entire time, but still good at switching between targets. very likely the best when you have times where you aren’t within melee range of your targets (applying poisons to your daggers as you run between targets or when you have to move away from melee range). Likely the best AoE dps rogues have to offer.

    Combat is all about staying active. While you still worry about managing your combo points, your energy is key. Combat's DPS would be good, but you take a substantial hit when you have to be away from the boss for too long. Combat would be the best at fighting a moderate number of targets relatively close together. Switching targets would cost little/no dps as combat is using "now" damage (as opposed to DoTs like deadly poison that build up) while running between targets would cost a decent bit. Best cleave damage while only decent AoE damage and good single target damage. Combat is a great candidate for a time when the raid needs a "weak tank", example in current content would be strengths on will of the emperor.

    Sub is about managing your shadow meter, as well as combo points. Sub would be the worst candidate for a fight where you have to switch targets often, but great against highly armored targets or fights where you need controlled burst. The single target dps would likely be the lowest (while still viable) as well as likely the lowest AoE dps, while the higher amount of survivability would allow sub rogues to stay in longer through tougher situations than the other specs, making them equal to or more viable single target DPS in many situations.

    sorry for any spelling/grammar issues or redundancies, this was written off the top of my head between customers at work :P (and my spelling kinda sucks anyways)
    Last edited by eijin; 2012-10-28 at 07:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Emfg's Avatar
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    Baseline Shadow Step or Preparation. Either one of those would make rogues fun for me again.
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