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  1. #1
    Keyboard Turner Xoidable's Avatar
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    assasination rogue dps issue

    is it me or are rogue terrible now in pve i'm rolling assasination now and my dps is really bad but forums on wow europe explode with that rogues are terrible in pve now that we are energy starved lack in switching targets and so on i do average 50-60k dps on most fights and i think thats terrible on the will of the emperror (last boss in MSV) its really horrible 30k to 40k only it might be bad that we need to switch targets all the time but i'm sure i can do better or i cant? plz reply with solutions so that i dont feel terrible as a rogue dps i used to top Dps whole cataclysm

    thx in advance

    P.S. here is my name for armory since i cant post links yet becasue i just made an account

    Name: Exxone
    Server: EU-Draenor

    also i know i should take anticipation as last talent but i changed tht for the elegon fight to switch with my CP to the adds becasue else i cant down them in time

  2. #2
    PvE damage is great right now, the people complaining are usually in dungeon gear and still playing Combat on single target fights.

    However without a log there really isn't much I can look at. Either get agility/hit, agility/mastery or pure agility gems. You have two agility/haste gems which isn't something you should be using. You are missing a belt buckle as well. Your mining profession isn't giving you any DPS. Not all your enchants are optimal but that is all very minor.

    A log would be much more helpful. How many melee do you guys have in your raid group? In a perfect world you have 5 (or was it 4?) ranged and you as the only melee. A melee shouldn't ever get off the boss and you shouldn't be missing Opportunistic Strikes. But again this is all random guessing, without a log we/I can't get far.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  3. #3
    Keyboard Turner Xoidable's Avatar
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    i would link a WoL but i cant put links out yet since i'm just new

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-28 at 03:08 AM ----------

    try it without the http and shit

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jyzonz4dgvopimlm/sum/damageDone/?s=3780&e=4236

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ut79gwhdpn35v2ps/sum/damageDone/?s=1902&e=2141

  4. #4
    I'm not that good when it comes to analyzing logs so I might have missed something obvious, but I don't see you making any major mistakes. Your uptime on Slice and Dice and Rupture seems to be really good on Feng, and you are casting your cooldowns often. I do feel your uptime on Envenom might be a bit on the low side which means you are either clipping it, or sometimes standing around not pressing any buttons. But this is just a gut feeling because I can't quite remember what uptime on Envenom is normal.

    I know Elegon really bloody sucks for Rogues but I think you can do with a little bit more uptime on Rupture and even Slice and Dice there. There is no reason to let Slice and Dice fall off anywhere besides for the transition between the pillars going back to the first phase. Rupture's uptime can be increased a bit as well. I don't know where exactly the problem lies, but your DPS doesn't seem to be bad though.

    What you can and should be doing is pre-potting at the start of the fight and using another potion during bloodlust or simply near the end when preferably both Vendetta and Shadow Blades are back up.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    Don't forget one thing, since Mist, Assasination rogue need expertise cap now.
    If you fishing for hours at the same place and you become confident that everything is fine and safe, its will mean one thing; You are wrong. Because i was actually sitting near of you for hours, cloaked in the shadow with a smile on my face and my daggers ready to strike. I did it many time before. I will do it again.....and again......

  6. #6
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Hey, got a raid atm but will take a look at this after I finish, or tomorrow morning.

    I'm also on Draenor so feel free to /w me, Mutix on Horde.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanardam View Post
    Don't forget one thing, since Mist, Assasination rogue need expertise cap now.
    mastery is still quite often better than expertise (although expertise has crit and haste beat)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by eijin View Post
    mastery is still quite often better than expertise (although expertise has crit and haste beat)
    Pretty much this. I find it easier to just cap expertise anyways so that Mutilate/Dispatch won't miss; at this haste level, either of those two missing is a real let-down.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    PvE damage is great right now, the people complaining are usually in dungeon gear and still playing Combat on single target fights.
    This sums up our situation.

    Got yesterday evening heroic dagger from stone guard, replacing my 450. Dps gone from 47-48k to 64k. For real.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 08:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zanardam View Post
    Don't forget one thing, since Mist, Assasination rogue need expertise cap now.
    Not true. Multiple simulations put exp under mastery (again, it's due to envenom buff triggering on dodged envenoms - and that's the major dps component of the cycle).

  10. #10
    Not to parrot the same thing over and over as it has been mentioned twice in this topic now but yes mastery is more important than expertise. You should aim to get mastery on each and every piece of gear you have while reforging out of everything but hit, then aim to get the hit cap, and then use excess points to reach the expertise cap. After those 3 things you can start getting haste while reforging out of any crit you have left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    -snip-
    You lucky bastard, heroic dagger and Bottle of Infinite Stars on top of that.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  11. #11
    got it yesterday evening with the charm roll - i replaced my 450 with that and dps increased by HOLYFU** a lot. BoIS is just raid finder, but doing Elegon this evening.

    EDIT: don't know why (i just assume seal fate has a lot to do about that) but crit is better than haste for assassination with my gear.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2012-10-29 at 01:56 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Not to parrot the same thing over and over as it has been mentioned twice in this topic now but yes mastery is more important than expertise. You should aim to get mastery on each and every piece of gear you have while reforging out of everything but hit, then aim to get the hit cap, and then use excess points to reach the expertise cap. After those 3 things you can start getting haste while reforging out of any crit you have left.
    Is there an exp floor that we don't want to cross? Looking at my gear, I can get rid of quite a bit of expertise and move it into mastery. (expertise that I reforged into from crit)

    Also, how have you found switching to combat for SG with those reforges? Is it still usable with low exp?

  13. #13
    really shouldnt have any issue capping out expertise. after hit cap its your second best stat. with raid worthy gear you shouldnt have to sacrifice mastery for expertise.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Xoidable View Post
    is it me or are rogue terrible now in pve i'm rolling assasination now and my dps is really bad but forums on wow europe explode with that rogues are terrible in pve now that we are energy starved lack in switching targets and so on i do average 50-60k dps on most fights and i think thats terrible on the will of the emperror (last boss in MSV) its really horrible 30k to 40k only it might be bad that we need to switch targets all the time but i'm sure i can do better or i cant? plz reply with solutions so that i dont feel terrible as a rogue dps i used to top Dps whole cataclysm

    thx in advance

    P.S. here is my name for armory since i cant post links yet becasue i just made an account

    Name: Exxone
    Server: EU-Draenor

    also i know i should take anticipation as last talent but i changed tht for the elegon fight to switch with my CP to the adds becasue else i cant down them in time
    What adds are you switching too? On elegon you just SS out and run back in to elegon. Few tips and tricks for mutilate play, you choose Anticipation no matter what.

    Anticipation = 5pt Envenom more frequent and quite honestly 100% if your paying attention.

    Rotation wise you only going to use dispatch procs if its going to allow you to hit 5pt otherwise you can use it as a free attack while energy starved rather than while you have energy.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by eijin View Post
    really shouldnt have any issue capping out expertise. after hit cap its your second best stat. with raid worthy gear you shouldnt have to sacrifice mastery for expertise.
    I agree in that there is no issue, but I am a bit surprised to hear now that mastery is in fact the second best stat, with expertise coming in third.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RogueOlf View Post
    I agree in that there is no issue, but I am a bit surprised to hear now that mastery is in fact the second best stat, with expertise coming in third.
    ...why? Without hit, your mastery means less. Hit (to cap) increases the value of the mastery you already have.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    ...why? Without hit, your mastery means less. Hit (to cap) increases the value of the mastery you already have.
    I was speaking specifically for reforge priorities, so I ignore agility. Hit is number 1. I am just trying to understand the best reforge approach for mastery vs. expertise once I am hit capped. Do I add mastery to every piece of gear and reforge to expertise where possible and it is what it is? Or am I still aiming for a specific expertise floor if reaching for 7.5% is not as important as getting as much mastery as possible.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RogueOlf View Post
    Is there an exp floor that we don't want to cross? Looking at my gear, I can get rid of quite a bit of expertise and move it into mastery. (expertise that I reforged into from crit)
    Whoa slow down tiger, just quickly going to clarify that expertise is not a bad stat and it's still quite important to reach the expertise cap. It's simply not as important as the hitcap and mastery.

    Now that's out of the way, yes if you reforged crit to expertise when there is no mastery on that piece of gear you should correct that. Mastery's value is much higher than expertise, and after the 7.5% expertise cap expertise becomes much less valuable. Your one and only goal is getting as much mastery as possible while still being at the hitcap. After that you simply get expertise where you can until 7.5% and get any excess points (which usually isn't much) and turn them into haste or crit.

    It's not uncommon for expertise to be quite low until your gear improves a little. Until last Sunday I was running around with 6% expertise and lower than that since MoP's release till then. Only just now with my 484 item level gear I managed to reach the expertise cap while still being at the hit cap with mastery on all my gear.

    Feel free to take a gander at my armory if you are interested in seeing what I do to my gear. Bit counter productive but I got a chest yesterday and didn't quite perfect my reforging just yet. I normally do that before our raids since I don't play much outside raiding days.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Bovan/advanced


    Quote Originally Posted by RogueOlf View Post
    Do I add mastery to every piece of gear and reforge to expertise where possible and it is what it is?
    Pretty much yea.
    It's okay not to be expertise capped as Assassination, but haste and crit have less value than expertise. If you can't get mastery and hit on a piece of gear or if you are over the hitcap, get expertise until 7.5%. If you have as much mastery as you can manage and you are at the 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise caps you can start looking at haste and crit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueOlf View Post
    Also, how have you found switching to combat for SG with those reforges? Is it still usable with low exp?
    I use an addon to switch between reforging profiles. So if I need to go Combat somewhere, I press a button and instantly get my own pre-made Combat reforges where I'm at the hit cap, expertise cap and got as much haste as possible on my gear.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  19. #19
    just for you Boven, got the BoIS from elegon tonight :P Sitting at a comfortable 79% mastery

    Anyway, reforging need to be tweaked each time you change a piece - you use reforgelite i assume.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    just for you Boven, got the BoIS from elegon tonight :P Sitting at a comfortable 79% mastery
    It's fine, I don't mind. I'm not bitter about Elegon eating up all my coins...

    Be right back, going to kick a puppy D:
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

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