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  1. #1

    [RP] The Canonity of Resurrect spells

    Just wondering if, from a RP lore perspective, the various Resurrect spells exist or not, or if only certain ones do. Trying to get back into RPing, and this question has been on my mind a while.
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  2. #2
    There is no actual canon source on resurrection spells. If you're extremely liberal, they will take long periods of preparation and extreme skill and concentration in order to be successfully performed. If you're not that liberal, they are only possible through divine intervention, which has never happened, and thus, are essentially impossible.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    The way I see it, RPing is writing a compelling, entertaining, exciting story between multiple authors. It's not a practice of becoming as powerful as you can within the limits of the system... thats tabletop RPG'ing (to some).

    What makes a story exciting? By having a protagonist endure hardships, with he threat of real danger, and eventually overcoming that.

    So what threat is there in the story if a resurrection is a castbar away? Madgod is right. A roleplayed resurrection should be an extensive, fragile, very draining (for the rezzer) sequence that comes at a high risk for either the caster or recipient.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  4. #4
    While Warcraft Pen n' Paper RPG books aren't canon, according to Blizzard (I believe there was some blue post about it), I think they are still decent enough source, though whether you want to base anything on them, is up to you.

    Anyway,

    Since Warcraft RPG is based on d20, here's roughly how resurrection works:
    1) Many spells have material components required to cast them (think portal runes in WoW before pre-MoP patch), and in case of resurrection spells, they are pretty expensive, like, as far as I remember, quite large diamond in one case, for example. (different spells can have different components)
    2) The resurrected person is (bar the most powerful spells) seriously weakened, in Pen n' Paper mechanics it was portrayed by losing some experience levels (so character's power, basically), usually one or two, I believe.

    That alone shouldn't make resurrections all that common, I believe, even though we're in heroic fantasy setting, not everyone would probably be able to afford them. (My character certainly wouldn't, for example, they are a homeless urchin, obtaining their next meal is a problem for them... diamonds? Forget it!)

    Also, I try to go by one, hm, rule for any RP, be it in WoW, Pen n' Paper, LARP, or anything else you can come up with:
    If a rule stands in the way of your fun, change the rule. (of course, everyone involved would need to agree upon the way it's done, since WoW RP has no GM the way Pen n' Paper does)
    For example, there's that powerful healing magic, that could take most "normal" illnesses away in a heartbeat, and is probably fairly common, what with Priests of Light, who probably would help you for free, and such. But getting every illness and wound immediately healed would break a lot of RP, with, say, your character being temporarily disadvantaged/weakened by the wound, and unable to run, having to use a walking stick to help themselves (it once happened to mine, they totally hated it In Character), or take all the job away from non-magical medic characters. So, for that purpose, I believe many RPers tone down the power of healing magic, to make things interesting, even though "official" rules say otherwise.
    Last edited by Demoneq; 2012-09-04 at 08:28 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoneq View Post
    Wall of PnP RPG text.
    If my memory serves correctly, back in D&D 2.0 and 3.0, maybe 3.5, most of the resurrects cost the recipient at least one level, sometimes with permanent stat losses, as well as RP memory issues, as well as costing the caster XP equivalent of at least half a level and materials with a value of "All the loot from the dungeon that idiot died in. Plus your pocket change."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    There is no actual canon source on resurrection spells. If you're extremely liberal, they will take long periods of preparation and extreme skill and concentration in order to be successfully performed. If you're not that liberal, they are only possible through divine intervention, which has never happened, and thus, are essentially impossible.
    So somewhere along the lines of "Possible, but the cost (not talking gold equivalent) probably isn't worth it." I was trying to goad a certain Druid in an aborted RP a while back (angry glare) into an argument that would head that way, and have my character claim credit for new spells that allowed resurrection, but stopped short because I didn't want to fourth wall or too glaringly break character.

    Anyways, Thanks for the responses all!
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    Hand puppets storm the base, flags up now cannons rage
    All clowns head for the rear, slingshots fire to the air
    Toy horses start the charge, Robot chessmen standing guard
    Crossfire to the marionettes, Slip into the edge of death...

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk GeordieMagpie's Avatar
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    The only resseruction we've seen in game is Mechanical Healing (goblin intro quest to Lost Isles) and..well..Holy light +Red Dragon Breath, if a normal person were to do it it would take extreme dedication, skill and devotion.
    Howay the lads!

  7. #7
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    Just my two cents: I typically play like it's not even possible to bring someone back to life for real. Perhaps in a situation where someone IRL could be revived after their heart stops, the same would be possible with the right medical attention/magic within a certain short time period.. After that certain short time period is up (however long it takes before they give up on you IRL) it's game over. That's just me.

    Keep in mind I tend to be rather liberal in terms of what I do and do not do in my RPs and I like to make shit up when there's nothing there, but that's one thing I don't mess with. Not even divine intervention.

  8. #8
    There's many ressurections in the game actually. A Taunka chieftain ressurects his tribe. King Terenas ressurects the heroes the Lich King slays. A Spirit Healer ressurects you in Azshara after you purposely die. A crusader's body is reassembled from abomination parts and brought back to life. Fel, just last week I did a quest in which you place a troll body, a troll skull with his spirit inside, some shaman fetishes and some mojo into a bubbling cauldron to ressurect the troll who was the skull (Bloodlord Mandokir) without trouble, in the dead troll's body. I think there's even a quest where you carry someone to the healers to be ressurected. And not to forget Thrall ressurecting that Drake in the Hour of Twilight instance.

    All in all, there are lots of examples here it happens in the game. The question is how much of that counts as lore? And if the people doing so are using magic stronger than players individually have available.

    For my guild, I keep to it that it's not something a single player can do. It's hard as fel, and gets progressively harder the more time passes since death. As long as it becomes something elaborate, costing lots of effort, and breeding potential for more RP, for example the gathering of rare ingredients or calling in favors, I'd say ressurection is something that may well have an acceptable place in RP.

  9. #9
    Epic! RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Phoenix Down: Revives from death K.O.

    That's my general take on it.
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  10. #10
    Fluffy Kitten Lokann's Avatar
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    The way we RP it (if at all) is that either the target's body has to be in relatively good condition or their spirit has to be highly attuned to the 'magic type' resurrecting them (as in, a shaman being rezzed by another shaman). This appears to be supported by a questline in Borean Tundra.

    I haven't seen any other resurrection than a shamanistic one IC yet though, and the way we've agreed to perform it is by entering the Spirit realm, finding the one we're looking for, then using the 'anchor' (usually an ankh) to drag both back to life. It is a very exhausting process and requires perfect balance (which is why my shaman will never do it, most likely), with the added danger of slipping and dying yourself.

    Oh wait, I've performed a 'resurrection'. I had completely forgotten. My troll priestess made a deal with Bwonsamdi to bring an orcish elder back, but at the cost of other lives (a very... loa thing to demand, yes? ), and once the debt was repaid, the elder started dementing and slowly drifting towards death anyhow.



  11. #11
    If I remember correctly, in the Tyrande short story she encountered a dead priestess who she couldn't help because the woman had been dead for too long. I'm guessing that means if it's done quickly, it's possible lore-wise.
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  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokann View Post
    My troll priestess made a deal with Bwonsamdi to bring an orcish elder back, but at the cost of other lives (a very... loa thing to demand, yes? ), and once the debt was repaid, the elder started dementing and slowly drifting towards death anyhow.
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  13. #13
    Fluffy Kitten Lokann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    A man needs a name.
    Pretty much, only with more dark voodoo, blood magic and soul draining.



  14. #14
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    As far as I usually go:

    -Combat deaths are deaths.
    -Plot deaths can have the option of resurrection, if it involves more plot. It's a tool, not a consequence of actions. If there is a reason for the death, beyond just a simple bad roll, then Res might be an option. It's up to the DM, group, or Narrator.

    Notably, I often refer to combat deaths as 'unconscious', 'crippled', or even in a few games I've handled, 'banished', where they aren't dead, but they're down and out for the remainder of the fight. In which case, a resurrection is usually a high powered heal that is simply too complicated to be done in combat.

  15. #15
    As far as game mechanics go, I don't think dying is actual "death"- You're knocked out or something like that. The game explicitly says that you're dead, but the game also has a 3 minute cooldown on throwing dirt into people's eyes, so it's not unfair to take it with a grain of salt.

    Resurrection can work, but can be difficult to finagle, ICly. The resurrector still needs to claim the resurrected's body, the body needs to be in not-terrible shape, the spirit has to be willing to return to the body.

    It's a narrative, and needs to be looked at like that; does it help or hinder the quality of the narrative to have a resurrection?

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    It's a narrative, and needs to be looked at like that; does it help or hinder the quality of the narrative to have a resurrection?
    Exactly this. RP is a collaborative effort to write something awesome. If it supports the story in a non-detrimental fashion, then aye.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Mengucekli's Avatar
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    As i am no master of lore or such, for me, "resurrection" and "revive" are two different things.

    Revive, simply put, is today's electro-shock but without electricity, instead, you use holy power / mana / magic / whatever to force the individual to awaken from the deep coma, restoring his health partially in the process, so the clinging spirit can fuel body with further life force. I believe this is quite hard to do, preventing the spirit from leaving the dying body, and repairing it while holding the spirit inside. It should deplete any magical force a character may have, like the accumulator of an electro-shock device is depleted after a few shots. It requires a tremendous amount of energy and uses all in the process, leaving the receptor body barely living. Further healing should be done manually (bandages if damage is visible, magic if interior), and probably by some other person. Also, it cannot be done while in the midst of combat, as it would require a lot of focus on the caster's part. Successfull (kinda) example can be seen ingame such as Whitemane - Mograine encounter, and unsuccessfull example can be seen in Netherstorm, where a band of draenei vindicators charge a group of legion demons and fail miserably, leaving Kaylaan trying to revive his other friend and not be able to do so. (He uses the spell 'Resurrect' but that's the name of it ingame, you know what i mean).

    Resurrect, on the other hand, is a totally different story. I guess it is more of a ritual, unlike the overcharged healing spell revive is. As others stated above, it requires a lot of preperation, and maybe exotic ingredients. It can be done even after some time passed after the death (i guess?), and it is costly (while sometimes not so efficient in the end). I guess it is more like necromantic magic, because we all know that if it was so easy and good to do then none of the major lore characters could die, they would jut be resurrected by others sometime somewhere and it would break the feeling of logic in itself.

    This is what i think, tho i like the idea of combat medic last second saves. Because that thing happens in real life too, and it is a very emotionally strong act.
    Last edited by Mengucekli; 2012-09-05 at 12:43 PM.

  18. #18
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    I'm not sure what I can add that others here haven't said, but I'll throw my two cents in. And yes, this is all my own thoughts, so they can be taken with whatever grain of salt you wish to spend on them.

    Death, total and complete death, to me, should be treated as such. Unless a resurrection plays a major role, or adds to the story, it's not really something that will be worthwhile; often it will lead to a unrealistic feeling that RPing tried to preserve. Now, maybe if so inclined, and you can think of how such a story will be interesting/enjoyable, you can create a new RP in which a group goes to great lengths to bring back someone from the dead. But that's about the only way I can see such an event being properly represented in a semi-realistic and logical form.

    As for combat deaths, well, it depends on you. A black-out, fainting, or just plain passing out until you get some strength back, are more of a state of comatose. You can come back, even quicker if someone pours their energy/mana/powers/super-special-healing-potion into you to aid your recovery, but it should still bring you back severely weakened. The other side is literally the death of your character. As stated above, that's kinda it, but in the most rare of occasions and extreme preparation/energy-usage.

    Now, something else I'm thinking of reading all this - death happens. It's part of life. Sooner or later, someone or something will die. It's more unrealistic to survive everything thrown at you, even if barely, than eventually falling to it. One of the great things of this whole RPing business (at least how I see it) is you can always make another character and start over. Basically-don't fear death. It just makes a story more realistic, and in some cases, a lot more interesting. Let your imagination stretch a bit, and figure out how to use it to aid a story, rather than possibly ruin it just case you don't want that character to die yet. And as stated by others, the point of RPing is to take part in this awesome story, and who doesn't like an interesting yet realistic story?
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  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    i think the in game resurrections are not actuallu resurrections but resuscitations of characters that are only mostly dead.

    If you are only mostly dead, then you are slightly alive, but if you are all dead then the only thing your friends can do is rummage through your pockets for loose change.

  20. #20
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon View Post
    If I remember correctly, in the Tyrande short story she encountered a dead priestess who she couldn't help because the woman had been dead for too long. I'm guessing that means if it's done quickly, it's possible lore-wise.
    To use new-agey terminology: imagine the bond between body and spirit as a sort of cord. It is not immediately severed upon death, but gradually frays over time until it breaks. Thus, resurrection becomes increasingly difficult the longer someone has been dead.

    Generally I avoid resurrection since it's just such a deux ex machina, which as a proponent of Aristotelean tragedy I despise. That is not to say it cannot be done, but generally I go with a Buffyverse style - if it was a natural death, all bets are off. Resurrection is only possible if the death was sudden (i.e. through violence) or magical in nature.
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