1. #1

    Class balance would ruin the game.

    I keep seeing people saying over and over again something along the lines of (choose your pick):

    - They have huge problems trying to balance the classes
    - This class is OP, this isn't fair, there is no class balance
    - They can't add this, or that to the game, that would make balancing the classes much harder
    - etc.

    Well... I'm sorry, but to me, who has played this game since early beta, it is extremely obvious that balancing the game isn't Blizzard intention at all... and I'm PERFECTLY FINE with that. I like it that way.

    People would only get bored if through all 4 expansions rogues always topped the meters, if class X always could be relied on to have a good representation in high pvp rankings etc.

    They purposefuly and intentionally shake around the balance every content patch so people keep on being engaged in the game. They change things up and make things interesting again to avoid people from getting stuck in a rut. Suddenly Warriors are OP in PvP, suddenly they're absolutely worthless in PvP ... it changes almost every content patch which classes are strong or weak, even in PvE, while in PvP it's much easier to notice.

    So please... when you're talking about WoW, stop using the word "balance". Class balance has never been the intention or goal... shaking things up and re-ordering the class hierarchy every content patch is what has kept this game going for so long. It's not a coincindence that suddenly some classes are so powerful and others aren't, and Blizzard through all the expansions has pretended her nose bleeds and that everything is fine... Balance would ruin the game and make people bored.

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    If classes would be balanced rogues wouldn't top the meters 4 expansions in a row. Best players, no matter their class, would top the meters.
    If classes would be balanced all classes could be relied to have a relative equal representation in high PvP rankings.

  3. #3
    The point of balancing is there ISN'T a class/spec hierarchy. In an ideal situation, every spec would perform equally in every situation.

    You, sir, don't understand anything about class balance.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    If classes would be balanced rogues wouldn't top the meters 4 expansions in a row. Best players, no matter their class, would top the meters.
    What? Since when did rogues top charts in Cata outside of DS, and where do you think they're possibly topping now? Hint: they're not.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    The point of balancing is there ISN'T a class/spec hierarchy. In an ideal situation, every spec would perform equally in every situation.

    You, sir, don't understand anything about class balance.
    I think you don't understand the thread or what I'm trying to say... I understand quite well what class balance would mean, and making every spec perform equally is what would ruin the game. It's more exciting and interesting to have an hierarchy instead that gets shaken up a little bit every content patch ... and that is what Blizzard's goal and result has been for the past 8 years that WoW have existed.

    So the people who are expecting class balance or expecting things to get tuned for balance ... are being completely oblivious and ignorant about what Blizzard actually wants for the game.

    People that want "Class balance" are playing the wrong game and are even wrong for expecting it to be applied to WoW.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    If classes would be balanced rogues wouldn't top the meters 4 expansions in a row. Best players, no matter their class, would top the meters.
    Ignoring the fact that rogues have had their ups and downs just like every other class, balance is not about topping meters. Rogues as the pure melee dps class with light armor should do the most personal damage to compensate for all their disadvantages (more movement and trickier positioning than ranged, less survivability than heavier armored classes and no ability to switch roles like hybrids). Balance comes from designing the game in a way that stacking rogues alone doesn't lead to maximum damage. This is the idea (that used to exist back when WoW had competent designers) that the combination of a pure dps + buffer hybrid had a higher combined dps than 2x pure dps or 2x hybrid buffer.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Static Transit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodejjj View Post
    What? Since when did rogues top charts in Cata outside of DS, and where do you think they're possibly topping now? Hint: they're not.
    I think his point is that he's replying to the OP's statement of "People would only get bored if through all 4 expansions rogues always topped the meters" as an argument against class balancing.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    I think you don't understand the thread or what I'm trying to say... I understand quite well what class balance would mean, and making every spec perform equally is what would ruin the game. It's more exciting and interesting to have an hierarchy instead that gets shaken up a little bit every content patch ... and that is what Blizzard's goal and result has been for the past 8 years that WoW have existed.
    im sorry, i was never a pve'er. our guild did the occasional raid to pass the time between nights we pvped but never got serious about it. i dont consider myself a badass or amazing but i almost always topped our dps as a warlock, from vanilla all the way to wrath (when i main tanked for the guild on my dk) and when i didnt have to tank i dpsed on my dk and still topped our charts.

    personally if i were in a serious raiding guild and my class was basically told you'll never top the dps meters that would be a huge disappointment and lead to an unwillingness to play that toon. im not saying im the type of person that needs to feel special but if its almost guarenteed youre always going to be at the bottom of the barrel in dps it would be very frustrating.

    when arenas first came out in BC i did 2s and 3s as full demo, not the sl/sl cheese combo that was popular the first two seasons. i did pretty well i think, in 2s i played with a disc priest and bounced around between 2 and 2.1k unfortunately missed the gladiator rank by like 100 points i think. in 3s i did them with the same disc priest and an amazing hunter. we did about the same bouncing around 2-2.1k but i was always getting my ass busted by those pesky sl/sl locks and druids in 2s. and sl/sl locks, druids and warriors in 3s. you could say i just needed to learn to play but i played A LOT of games against these comps and the good players would just stomp us. it was frustrating. it led to me not wanting to play arenas because it felt like if i wanted to crack 2200 i needed to learn to play an sl/sl spec.

    tl:dr i dont think having sweeping nerfs and buffs to classes to make them "fotm" is exciting or interesting at all. it amounts to a lot of people rolling multiple alts to skirt around the main issue. i would venture a guess that you dont believe in the old philosophy of "bring the player, not the class"?

  10. #10
    Warchief sam86's Avatar
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    There is no class balance, I prefer rock-scissors-paper model were warrior can't beat mage, mage can't beat warlock, warlock can't beat warrior, but it seems since cata the model is no one can beat frost mage, moved to no one can beat blood death knight, now no one can beat warrior arms or bm hunter because they try to balance 11 different class to win 1v1 depend on skill
    They have better luck making pigs fly then 11 unique different classes balanced (with 3 talents each)
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  11. #11


    Balance, pretty much captures my thoughts on balance. That being said, the current imbalances are just too large.
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  12. #12
    I understand why balance is necessary and why it's a good thing. But I feel imbalance can be something we have to accept if we want rich gameplay.

    In Cataclysm, for example, I felt all healing classes were made too equal in gameplay for balances sake.

    And equipment in the last years is mostly just stats. Which I feel is boring, but easy to balance. The one time we got something more than plain stats, Dragonwrath, it required multiple nerfs despite being legendary and therefore supposed to be strong. Also it was hard to outdate, as newer and stronger gear generally defines itself by stats, which Dragonwrath only mildly cared about.
    Last edited by SteakAndAlePie; 2012-10-28 at 05:11 PM.

  13. #13
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    You sir...are nuts.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  14. #14
    If every class did exactly the same thing in their respective roles, spells and abilities dealt the exact same damage with the same modifiers, everyone brought the exact same buffs, and exact same cooldowns, the only thing classes would be is flavour and nothing more. And even then you'd have generalised comparisons between "ranged" and "melee" or complaints that plate wearers had better survivability because of more armour, etc. Distinction brings strengths and weaknesses and mediocre/bad players will *always* complain because it's never their own fault they failed, it's everyone and everything else.

  15. #15
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    OP I think you're missing the point. It can't be totally perfect balance but at least somewhat balanced. There has to be a balance between class flavor, rotations and all that technical jabber wabber.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahad View Post
    The point of balancing is there ISN'T a class/spec hierarchy. In an ideal situation, every spec would perform equally in every situation.

    You, sir, don't understand anything about class balance.
    What you're asking for is like asking a car company to make a hybrid that gets 100 mpg, can go offroad with ease, do 200 MPH+ on a race track, seat 8 comfortably, and be affordable. Do you realise the magnitude of the problem? Everyone wants THE BEST for EVERY situation from ALL classes and that is impossible but doesn't think it comes down to player skill despite their claims that it should. The BEST comes from how the player performs in the situation, not how buffed/unbuffed blizzard has made your class, in a fight where melee is at a disadvantage shouldn't be comparing themselves to ranged classes which aren't handicapped...

  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    There still has to be a good amount of balance or else why play a class you like just reroll.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    There is no class balance, I prefer rock-scissors-paper model were warrior can't beat mage, mage can't beat warlock, warlock can't beat warrior, but it seems since cata the model is no one can beat frost mage, moved to no one can beat blood death knight, now no one can beat warrior arms or bm hunter because they try to balance 11 different class to win 1v1 depend on skill
    They have better luck making pigs fly then 11 unique different classes balanced (with 3 talents each)
    There has never been, and will never be, balance in an MMO as far as pvp is concerned. Seriously. Every game in a classical sense, from board games to team sports, to (older) competitive FPS is all about opponents at least starting with absolutely identical abilities and restrictions. MMO's throw this out the window by not only having different classes with differing abilities from different ranges, but teams or sides being able to have more of 1 class than another. (not to mention gear differences, etc)

    No, MMO PvP is about riding the see-saw, and just enjoying it for what it is. Anyone looking for balanced, 100% pure skill based PvP is simply in the wrong genre entirely, and in for a world of frustration.
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  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    OT, but your Orc in your avatar doesn't have tusks. ALL orc females have 2 tusks, where's your tusks?
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