View Poll Results: Would you like this system implemented?

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  • Yes

    59 29.95%
  • No

    138 70.05%
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  1. #1

    Botting: Could This Prevent It?

    So I just posted in my Botting: PvP is now PvE thread (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3444947?page=1) a potential solution for botting.

    Botting is more of a problem at lower levels and brackets than it is at higher levels because of the experience gains, though that isn't to say the level-cap brackets don't have botting problems of their own. Whether they perform well or not, win or lose - they're going to recieve more honor and exp if they bot overnight / ten hours of lost matches than playing the game themselves for what time they can, presumably less than overnight / ten hours. That's pretty much why people bot, they might get less per hour but at the end of the day they're not even playing so what do they care. They could enjoy a day out at the beach and still make more honor than a guy who farms 6 hours a day.

    Point being? If battlegrounds had no rewards, would people have any reason to bot? Nope. If we take away the rewards people get from battlegrounds, people will have no reason to bot. But we still want rewards from BGs; so I propose a system that will distinguish human players from bot players, ensuring that bots who fail to pass this distinguish system will recieve no exp or honor and they will not be rewarded for their botting, which should reduce botting significantly.

    Here is my idea on how that can be done.

    This is my suggestion of how one system could work in-game. A frame appears with 9 randomly generated numbers, and players are given a randomly generated 4 digit number displayed on their screen (could have symbols, numbers, letters) but I'll use use numbers for the explanation process. The example code here is 1738

    *Enters Battleground*

    Please enter this number / phrase to qualify for honor and experience gains:

    <1738>

    Please enter the THIRD digit of the phrase.

    _ _ _ _

    [1] [5] [9]

    [0] [3] [7]

    [2] [8] [4]
    Once you enter one button, the keys randomly swap around and appear like this in different locations. It asks for a random number within the generated number, e.g it should ask for the first, second, third or fourth number / letter in the code, rather than asking for them in typical order. This is pretty similar to the system that online banking uses when one enters their password - they instead enter randomly requested individual parts of the password e.g please enter the 2nd, 4th and 6th letters of your password.

    So, you click number 1 and progress to the next number in the required code.

    Please enter the FIRST digit of the phrase.

    _ _ 3 _

    [4] [8] [0]

    [6] [2] [5]

    [3] [7] [1]
    Since the last number requested was the third number, which in the code of 1738 is - you guessed it, 3, you can see that it has been entered, and is now asking for the first number. Pretty easy to see how it works.

    I imagine that since all this stuff is displayed visually and must be clicked it can't be tracked via keys which is basically all bots do. All these bots do is target stuff and cast spells. I'm no technical expert but they use a system just like this to protect in-game bank accounts on a few other games I play and have played.

    A player should have no trouble clicking on four numbers, I'm willing to bet bots can't read and won't know what to do.

    ..

    So, what do you think? Would you vote for this system to be implemented if you could? If not, why? Because I'm just going to assume you're a botter if the excuse isn't legit enough to explain why entering a 4 digit number is so hard for you. This system would (or should) only happen every four or five games-ish.

    I'd add a poll but I don't know how. I'll try find a way after I submit but if a mod could add it for me if they see it hasn't been done, that'd help.
    Last edited by Shadowbane; 2012-10-28 at 04:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    There's no point in inconveniencing 100% of the player base that pvp's b/c a small % of them sometimes get bots. I've played several years and rarely seen any botters, and when i have i deal with it or leave. People complain pvp is dead now imagine having to authenticate every bg you enter, no thanks. Also to dispute your assumption that im against it b/c im a botter, nope...im against it because it's just not needed.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane View Post
    Would you vote for this system to be implemented if you could? If not, why? Because I'm just going to assume you're a botter if the excuse isn't legit enough to explain why entering a 4 digit number is so hard for you.
    I was going to post a good explanation for why I'm against this, but then I read that you would consider me a botter, so I'm gonna have to simplify it:

    No. Because.

    I'm going to assume you're a botter if you ask why.

  4. #4
    This is brilliant, sir. I wouldn't mind doing this at all.

    I guess the only problem is that some will still do botting while watching TV, sometimes looking at the screen and seeing if the confirmation box appears but of course it would make botting less because most botters leave the botting to do it's thing while they go to bed etc. but as I said I bet it would decrease botting.

  5. #5
    Actually part of the forum post I took this from which I forgot to copy says that this would (or should) only happen every four or five games-ish.

    I should add I'd find this inconveniencing if it were to happen every BG too.

    Also it's not 'sometimes' gets bots. Bots are everywhere. I did an Arathi Basin with 2 other real players, the rest of our team was bots. Same story for the Horde team. An EotS I did before was just as bad with 11 bots. I did an Isle of Conquest today with 20 bots. It's definitely, definitely needed.

    Frankly I find it hard to believe you've played the game for several years and hardly seen any. I've played since '06 and it seems like we're talking about different games here.

  6. #6
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Captchas to enter BGs.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrodel View Post
    I was going to post a good explanation for why I'm against this, but then I read that you would consider me a botter, so I'm gonna have to simplify it:

    No. Because.

    I'm going to assume you're a botter if you ask why.
    I said this just to prevent 'no, it would be bad' responses.

    I'd like thought through, constructive criticism on why this would be bad. I wouldn't consider you a botter if you posted that good explanation of yours. Even if it's just because you'd find the digit system an inconvenience, maybe it could be buggy, maybe entering it wrong by accident and losing the right to obtain honour and exp that match isn't fair. Those are the kind of responses that actually mean something.

    To be honest, I'd love to hear what that 'good explanation' was - partially because I think you posted way too quick to have a good one.

    CAPTCHAS was something I mentioned on my forum thread, Didactic.

    Yep, add something like CAPTCHA, math problem or authenticator before entering a BG so we wouldn't have to spend time reporting the same bots over and over again. I doubt many of the current botters would quit the game if they had to work for their honor/exp. That way Blizzard could keep their precious dollars and subscribers.

    I would rather type a captcha every 5 mins than play with bots.
    - Aku, Stormreaver
    Last edited by Shadowbane; 2012-10-28 at 04:20 AM.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome
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    Honestly, the way to vastly reduce honor botting would be to simply remove or vastly reduce the honor requirement on alt characters. Most people I know who bot did at least 80% of their main character the regular way and botted their other character's honor. Mostly because it takes maybe 12 hours with a 5 man group to get the start of season honor (at least start of MoP), but it takes like 3-4 days botting, simply because you lose a lot while botting.

    You still have people who bot to level or mine/herb, I don't think that will really be avoidable, unless they decide to remove exp from bgs.


    But, as with any Captcha, they're basically all defeatable by a program, some just harder than others; what you're suggesting would be very easy to bot.

  9. #9
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane View Post
    I said this just to prevent 'no, it would be bad' responses.

    I'd like thought through, constructive criticism on why this would be bad. I wouldn't consider you a botter if you posted that good explanation of yours.

    CAPTCHAS was something I mentioned on my forum thread, Didactic.

    - Aku, Stormreaver
    Good, because it is a good idea.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vantheus View Post
    There's no point in inconveniencing 100% of the player base that pvp's b/c a small % of them sometimes get bots. I've played several years and rarely seen any botters, and when i have i deal with it or leave. People complain pvp is dead now imagine having to authenticate every bg you enter, no thanks. Also to dispute your assumption that im against it b/c im a botter, nope...im against it because it's just not needed.
    It is very much needed. I did 4bg's at 90 today and only one of them had more then 3 people. The one I won was because bots kept rushing the other bases. They defended nothing. Went to no called incs. Literally just rand in circles capping the bases then proceeded to GY camp the stable starting GY. Point is, its bad. You just haven't noticed or have and don't care. Trust me, getting rid of the bots wouldn't be seen as inconveniencing anyone who joins BG's to have an epic battle vs real people instead of the lame, snooze fest that bgs are.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane View Post
    Frankly I find it hard to believe you've played the game for several years and hardly seen any. I've played since '06 and it seems like we're talking about different games here.
    My son and i share 3 accts, have 19 85's and 4 90's now, while we dont pvp a ton we do have combined 183k honor kills and have been in maybe 8-10 BG's that the outcome was actually affected by botters, perhaps it's your battle group or time of day you play, not sure im just saying i have enough pvp experience to say whether or not it is a bother to the average pvp'er and guess what...it's not. What if blizzard came out and simply said we have a solution....if our system detects any addons inside a bg you will be disconnected? They currently have that ability and would work 100% to stop the botting, unfortunately many would complain they lose their crutch of addons, just like many complain about entering an access code for a problem not nearly as big as few think it is.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vantheus View Post
    I've played several years and rarely seen any botters
    Just because you have no idea what a bot looks like doesn't mean they are not there.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vantheus View Post
    There's no point in inconveniencing 100% of the player base that pvp's b/c a small % of them sometimes get bots. I've played several years and rarely seen any botters, and when i have i deal with it or leave. People complain pvp is dead now imagine having to authenticate every bg you enter, no thanks. Also to dispute your assumption that im against it b/c im a botter, nope...im against it because it's just not needed.
    I would have been in 100% agreement, until today, the first time I had really seen people botting more than the 1 or 2 in the occasional av.

    3 IOC's in a row, 31 people botting. The 3rd on there were 3 live players, THREE. It makes for a horrible game experience but as many have said, those 37 sub fees add up to more than the 3 live sub fees, so who is blizzard going to side with? Not side with, but completely ignore.


    If they refuse to ban they need to put some kind of check in place to prevent it, I and everyone else can take 3 seconds out of their busy busy schedule of pvp'ing to click a few buttons.

    If they can't, they don't play, you sit there waiting 1:45 ish for the bg to start anyways.
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  14. #14
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    You really want to get rid of bots? Get rid of click to move.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbane View Post
    Actually part of the forum post I took this from which I forgot to copy says that this would (or should) only happen every four or five games-ish.
    So you just slow down their leveling/honor gain process by 20-25%?
    Woop de doo.

    Edit; I see 1-3 max in each BG I play, depending on the size of course.
    Last edited by turskanaattori; 2012-10-28 at 04:28 AM.

  16. #16
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Why not have a 'report bot' (not cheating, not language, botting). If someone gets more than X bot reports, then for that game they have to do it.

    Doesn't inconvenience 100%. Sure, a few people who aren't botting get it, but thems the breaks. 25% of the time I get pulled over is for no reason, and I get let off without a ticket. Thats how policing works sometimes.

    -Why is the person getting reported? Maybe they're just standing around doing nothing, and may motivate them to help (maybe they're afking)
    -People who report one person maybe get a mark on them for harassment. Analytical data would show who is abusing the system, and who is using it properly, and adjust accordingly.
    -Too many votes of botting would cause it to actually notify a GM.

    If I can get banned for 3 hours because I was pvping while at work (and thus often had to stop playing, effectively looking afk), bots ought to have at least that or worse.

  17. #17
    captchas have no place in a video game

    and this will not stop botting. nothing will.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    You really want to get rid of bots? Get rid of click to move.
    Perfect idea, get rid of click to move and disable addons on entering or auto disconnect, make pvp what it should be pvp not addon vs addon

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Vantheus View Post
    There's no point in inconveniencing 100% of the player base that pvp's b/c a small % of them sometimes get bots. I've played several years and rarely seen any botters, and when i have i deal with it or leave. People complain pvp is dead now imagine having to authenticate every bg you enter, no thanks. Also to dispute your assumption that im against it b/c im a botter, nope...im against it because it's just not needed.
    You say you have not seen botters? Im guessing you can't tell between a bot and a player.
    Yesterday on a BG I had 4 botters on my team, it was battle for gilneas so that was 40% of my team botters, they all just ran to defend mine and stood there doing absolutely nothing, once I typed "Botters defending mines?" in the BG chat all of them left, 4 players literally on the same second left the BG, I even saw it happen all of them went AFK and then got ported out.
    (Basically their bots detect if someone types the word bot for example in chat or whisper and then leave BG/go offline or something similar.)
    Same thing was going on the alliance side of that BG, same people kept coming the same route again and again to the LH from their GY, one by one, even though there were multiple horde defending LH.
    For some reason there are currently a lot of BG botters, no clue why, it used to be rare and only on AV.
    BG botters really ruin the fun for others, gathering and fishing bots on the other hand not really, all they do is bring prices down for the materials.

    i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz | R9 280X | Samsung Evo 250GB

  20. #20
    I'm no expert on bot programs so whether this is easy for a bot or not isn't my area. I got the idea from online banking logins, which is secure enough, hence why I think CAPTCHAs arn't quite good enough. I refuse to believe nothing can be done about them though - even if it's just improving the report AFK feature.

    Currently they get a 1 min debuff where if they don't PvP they get booted, bots are unfortunately not going to let that happen since they mindlessly just do whatever. That clearly isn't working, so that needs to be revamped if nothing else.

    A relevant quote from the forum thread

    Battlegrounds have become something along the lines of Bottinggrounds. Absolutely no security.
    Filth - Sylvanas
    Last edited by Shadowbane; 2012-10-28 at 04:30 AM.

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