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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mmmmmmmBacon View Post
    Well you could step it up and start doing raids, where the pve gear is equal tier to those doing arenas and rated battlegrounds. PvP Power and Resilience is absolutely worthless in a pve environment, so while using a malevolent piece might be better than a heroic dungeon piece or LFR piece (and let's face it, LFR is basically the same difficulty as a heroic dungeon), it will always lose out to a piece of raid gear of equal tier.
    I have already stepped it up and am already raiding, but the fact is that Malovent is nearly identical in strength to normal raiding gear (only 6 item level difference) and has two additional stats on top of that. PvE gear is a little bit stronger than PvP gear in PvE, but PvP gear is a LOT stronger than PvE gear in PvP. That difference there, is the problem. You want them to be separated and good on their own field? Sure, no problem, for as long as it's the same on both fronts, which it currently isn't.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-28 at 08:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumsnut View Post
    And how much bullshit is it that PvP has _always_ been Blizzards second priority? You have basically always been forced to do PvE to be competetive in PvP. Especially for weapons.
    In TBC you could gear up with PvP gear before you started anything else, welfare epics as it was called. But endgame PvE gear was still a must if you wanted to be competetive.
    And now you can have PvP gear that is equal or slightly better than the current PvE gear, and it's bullshit? Yeah... no.

    Do you wanna compare each expansion with content and gear? You'll win every single expansion, every single patch with a new raid etc.

    Don't call it bullshit.
    It is bullshit, because reversing the situation is not fixing it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Baenesur View Post
    I agree on one thing here - The burst is too high.
    I don't get the point where people starts to say that healers are impossible to kill. 2x DPS teams can faceroll a healer in a global or two, while Healer/DPS vs Healer/DPS games are a tad longer, but healers are getting killed. Especially after the flat 15% nerf to healing in PvP scenarios!
    It's more of a cooldown issue. It's one thing trying to heal through a hunter who just popped beastial wrath and stampede, along with his warrior partner who just popped recklessness, deadly calm, and avatar with a skull banner down and you're a druid who doesn't have tree form up or symbiosis to iceblock it. It's another issue when it's a solo rogue trying to kill a paladin and can barely dent his sacred shield as he heals himself from 40% hp to 100% in 2 instant cast heals.

  3. #23
    I disaggree with your entire post op, your solutions would make things far worse.
    The grass is always greener - The times were always better

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    If you're reffering to me on the second one, 6 item level difference is not enough to justify "well PvP gear has lower item lvl in comparison" when PvP gear also has PvP Power and PvP resilience.
    Oh rly so pls explain how you need pvp power and resil in pve enviroment.
    And pls explain how it will fix "not use pve gear in pvp" when pvp power and resill will shorten stats on pvp gear (read lower stats on haste/crit/mastery)...

  5. #25
    The reason they went away with ratings on first tier weapons was so more people could enjoy pvp, face it, it is not the same game. Bliz wants everyone to have at least a fighting chance and I like that. Getting rid of pvp power wouldnt that put gear at the same point as wrath, so what would all the changes through cata be for? Almost every class is a burst god, I don't understand how people think burst is such a huge deal in MOP, 2 or 3 classes in every season have had higher burst then the others, I dont see how mop pvp is any different then wrath pvp or cata pvp or any pvp.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Madus View Post
    Oh rly so pls explain how you need pvp power and resil in pve enviroment.
    And pls explain how it will fix "not use pve gear in pvp" when pvp power and resill will shorten stats on pvp gear (read lower stats on haste/crit/mastery)...
    PvP power and resilience has nu use in PvE no, but the PvP gear has the exact same amount of stats as PvE gear. In the past PvP items used to have resilience instead of a secondary stat such as haste, mastery, crit or hit. But now they have two secondary stats just as PvE gear, on top of their PvP power and resilience, and almost if not equal item lvl.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Yet PvP gear has 6 stats, all the stats PvE gear has PLUS two more:
    Dreadful Gladiator's Drape of Prowess, item level 458:
    717 stamina
    478 Intellect
    280 Haste
    342 Mastery
    220 PvP Power
    220 PvP resilience

    VS Cloak of Ancient Curses, item level 458:
    717 Stamina
    478 Intellect
    346 Haste
    272 Hit

    How come PvP gear has everything PvE gear has, and more? I have had to replace several of my heroic dungeon items because the Malevolent gear was better on all fronts, it was a complete upgrade in all stats, which is just bullshit.

    Either remove 1-2 stats from PvP gear, or add PvE power and PvE resilience to make PvP gear worthless in PvE. Or just let the gear be the same...
    Oh my.. it doesn't have everything and MORE. In a PVE environment pvp power and pvp resilience are worthless, so it's actually even.
    Those stats are absolutely necessary for PvP so they're there on every piece

    Omg it has more green text! ... damn whiners.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I have already stepped it up and am already raiding, but the fact is that Malovent is nearly identical in strength to normal raiding gear (only 6 item level difference) and has two additional stats on top of that. PvE gear is a little bit stronger than PvP gear in PvE, but PvP gear is a LOT stronger than PvE gear in PvP. That difference there, is the problem. You want them to be separated and good on their own field? Sure, no problem, for as long as it's the same on both fronts, which it currently isn't.
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=90504
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=84868

    I'm feeling a lot of remorse for those poor raiders who don't have PvP Power on their gear now...

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by engwee View Post
    Oh my.. it doesn't have everything and MORE. In a PVE environment pvp power and pvp resilience are worthless, so it actually has 1 less stat.
    Those stats are absolutely necessary for PvP so they're there on every piece

    Omg it has more green text! ... damn whiners.
    Check the items again. Both items have two secondary stats... The PvP piece does have everything and more.

  10. #30
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    To be honest, I don't see much of a problem. You can easily kill a healer if you just work together, I say, keep it as it is. If you and your friend can't force a heal OOM or kill him, then you need to work on your tactics a bit more. Or get some more PvP gear. Stats counter stats, they are there for a reason. One increases healing to people but also dmg to people. and the other just lowers the dmg in general.

    Without the PvP stats, where's the competitive reasons to fight? The winning team will be the one with most PvE gear sending off the biggest attack.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by mmmmmmmBacon View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=90504
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=84868

    I'm feeling a lot of remorse for those poor raiders who don't have PvP Power on their gear now...
    You are comparing heroic raiding with malovent gear, the step above honor gear, good job... A better comparison would be towards:
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=85300

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I have already stepped it up and am already raiding, but the fact is that Malovent is nearly identical in strength to normal raiding gear (only 6 item level difference) and has two additional stats on top of that. PvE gear is a little bit stronger than PvP gear in PvE, but PvP gear is a LOT stronger than PvE gear in PvP. That difference there, is the problem. You want them to be separated and good on their own field? Sure, no problem, for as long as it's the same on both fronts, which it currently isn't.
    So, PVE gear IS better for PVE...

    But not by enough? You realize they said this was what they wanted, right? They want PVE to be better for PVE, and vice versa, but both to be viable.

    I'm really not sure what your problem here is. There's not even a blue PVP weapon. It will never be perfect.
    By Blood and Honor We Serve!

  13. #33
    I don't understand this whole topic who is the gear hurting? Why cant pvp gear have two stats and why cant pvp gear be like pve gear? Grinding a full set of even dreadful is time consuming and they want it if the pvp person wants to be able to do some pve they can. That is bliz choice. If you gem full pvp power that is not going to help you in pve situations.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    So, PVE gear IS better for PVP...

    But not by enough? You realize they said this was what they wanted, right? They want PVE to be better for PVE, and vice versa, but both to be viable.

    I'm really not sure what your problem here is. There's not even a blue PVP weapon. It will never be perfect.
    No PvE gear is not better for PvP, I have no idea where you got that from, I suggest you read my post again...

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    No PvE gear is not better for PvP, I have no idea where you got that from, I suggest you read my post again...
    It was a typing error.
    By Blood and Honor We Serve!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    You are comparing heroic raiding with malovent gear, the step above honor gear, good job... A better comparison would be towards:
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=85300
    Unless Blizzard makes the announcement that the PvP season will end this Tuesday and the new season starts on the 13th, when Terrace opens, then we will see Heroic Terrace gear in season 12, so no, it will be the match for Season 12 gear. Chances of the season ending this early are highly unlikely though.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    PvE gear is a little bit stronger than PvP gear in PvE, but PvP gear is a LOT stronger than PvE gear in PvP.
    That was purpose from blizz to make it like that. Do you trolling?
    Last edited by Madus; 2012-10-28 at 08:08 AM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    So, PVE gear IS better for PVE...

    But not by enough? You realize they said this was what they wanted, right? They want PVE to be better for PVE, and vice versa, but both to be viable.

    I'm really not sure what your problem here is. There's not even a blue PVP weapon. It will never be perfect.
    I'm not even sure what viable means anymore since everyone uses it in so many different ways. But PvE gear does not work in PvP, against an opponent you will get slaughtered because of the PvP power and resilience, whilst the penalty to PvP gear is to have slightly less item level, something that is barely noticable unless you are in a hardcore PvE guild pushing for that last % on the boss.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-28 at 09:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmmmmmBacon View Post
    Unless Blizzard makes the announcement that the PvP season will end this Tuesday and the new season starts on the 13th, when Terrace opens, then we will see Heroic Terrace gear in season 12, so no, it will be the match for Season 12 gear. Chances of the season ending this early are highly unlikely though.
    Comparing:
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=85109
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=87170

    I doubt that Orb of the Waterspeaker is better in PvP considering the 771 resilience and 2874 power on the malevolent staff.

  19. #39
    They changed PVP itemization to this system because of all the complaints about the Cata PVP model, where PVP gear was higher ilvl than its PVE equivalent but only had resilience and one secondary stat. The QQ was endless, here and elsewhere. The big one that kept recurring was about people wearing high-ilvl PVP gear to sneak into PVE content they wouldn't be allowed to do otherwise, even though it was less DPS. Oh noes!

    The new system is the best they've ever come up with:

    * PVP gear is lower ilvl than its PVE equivalent, making PVE gear BiS for PVE
    * Resilience and Power are there so PVP gear is BiS for PVP
    * Resilience and Power not being part of the item budget means "ilvl = DPS"

  20. #40
    If you are getting outdmged by pvpgeared guy in pve in your pve raid set you are doing something wrong.

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