Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
LastLast
  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderas View Post
    The problem is, that during the last raid cycles of an expansion, they like to branch out and try those "gimmicky" effects for trinkets.

    While I don't necessarily agree that PVP power is needed for PVP gear, something is. It's not the most elegant solution, but it helps the PVE gear vs PVP gear debate. Honestly, I think they should make resilience scale a tiny bit better and make PVP Power scale a little worse.
    Why must there be a pve vs pvp gear debate at all?
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Why must there be a pve vs pvp gear debate at all?
    Because people shouldn't be forced to do both, some people do not want to raid. Imagine raiders being forced into Arena because PvP is BiS. The outrage would be unbelievable.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Why must there be a pve vs pvp gear debate at all?
    because pve almost always has had a big impact on the balance of pvp.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Because people shouldn't be forced to do both, some people do not want to raid. Imagine raiders being forced into Arena because PvP is BiS. The outrage would be unbelievable.
    What the what...? It can't be BiS because both arenas and raids can now provide same level loot. Now heroic elite level gear from raids is equivalent to loot obtainable from 2600 rated arenas. LFR level loot is available from random bgs. Normal mode level loot is available at 1300-1600 rating.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  5. #165
    How about this... remove base resil and get rid of pvp power from gear, there is a reason 85s are beating up 89s.... doesn't make ANY SENSE AT ALL (kinda not the right reason to take pvp power/base resil away, but low lvl pvp is a pain because of lack of pvp power and having high resil). Bring in the old system from wotlk, the more resil you got, the less chances you can be crit and take less dmg. Yes... some people may say "pve gear is BIS and very usable or maybe better" but your gonna need the resil. As for the pvp weapons, they need to be about the same ilvl as pve weps... maybe a RF version (honor req) reg version (conquest 1800 required in 2's/3's/5's) heroic version (2.2k rbgs/2's/3's/5's).

    Overall, i think its FINE if pve gear/weps were usable in pvp but i guess the only issue is that legendary weps (sha touched) could be usable again and can lead to imbalance and can overpower pvp weapons.

    All i can say is, i want to go back to the wotlk pvp system.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2013-01-07 at 04:17 AM.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    All i can say is, i want to go back to the wotlk pvp system.
    I'm not going to quote your whole spheal, but the WOTLK resil model was fucking horrible. Resil lowering crit chance absolutely guts certain classes or specs viability. The current resil model is fine excellent. Just reign in PvP power.
    Just calm down.
    My Stream - My Youtube Channel

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Henako View Post
    I'm not going to quote your whole spheal, but the WOTLK resil model was fucking horrible. Resil lowering crit chance absolutely guts certain classes or specs viability. The current resil model is fine excellent. Just reign in PvP power.
    Yeah... but i honestly hate to gem pvp power rather then going for our base stat (kinda kills unholy the fact we NEED str). All i know is the current pvp system is the worst among the entire game (well, in my opinion).

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Yeah... but i honestly hate to gem pvp power rather then going for our base stat (kinda kills unholy the fact we NEED str). All i know is the current pvp system is the worst among the entire game (well, in my opinion).
    Like I said. Just reign in PvP power. Should be supplementary, not what you're gunning for.
    Just calm down.
    My Stream - My Youtube Channel

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    So, PVE gear IS better for PVE...

    But not by enough? You realize they said this was what they wanted, right? They want PVE to be better for PVE, and vice versa, but both to be viable.

    I'm really not sure what your problem here is. There's not even a blue PVP weapon. It will never be perfect.
    The point is this.

    PvE gear is a LITTLE bit better for PvE than PvP gear, if you compare close ilvl, so normal 489/496 vs Malevolent 483.

    PvP gear with it's full set of normal stats + Power + Resi makes it leagues better for PvP than PvE gear.

    The whole point of them adding baseline resilience was to "lower the barrier to entry to pvp" and make it that people with full PvE gear would feel less worthless in a BG while they grind honor, instead of just getting farmed by full malevolent players. Yet the gap now is bigger than it's ever been....

    I do 60% less damage to PvP geared players - so 40% of my normal damage
    I have 40% resi (base) and they deal 50% more damage to me, so they deal 90% of their normal damage back to me (100k * 1.5 * 0.6 = 90k)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
    i7-3930k @ 4.6 | Sabertooth X79 | 32GB DDR3-1600 | GTX-680 Jetstream SLI | TX950W

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    What the what...? It can't be BiS because both arenas and raids can now provide same level loot. Now heroic elite level gear from raids is equivalent to loot obtainable from 2600 rated arenas. LFR level loot is available from random bgs. Normal mode level loot is available at 1300-1600 rating.
    Congratulations you just killed Arenas. 2600 rating is far, far, far, far harder then Heroic Raiding. In fact 2600 is impossible for the vast majority to even reach by how the MMR works. By your logic a few dozen people around the world would get said gear, the rest could go screw themselves.

    People would get gear far better or equivalent to what you get in Arena thrown at them at a faster pace then it happens in Arena.

    Are you by any chance a PvE guy?

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by lobomuerto11 View Post
    I used to pvp A LOT...in vanilla and every other expansion. I tried one pvp so far in MoP and never have again. PVP stats have gotten ridiculous. PvP in WoW is like a completely different game now. You CAN NOT WEAR PVE GEAR TO PVP. <---this has broken the game severely!!! Back in vanilla, rogues wanted to get the perditions blade so they could go destroy people in pvp. PVE and PVP were connected and it make the game extremely fun. It caused world pvp because people wanted to try out their new gear from slaying Ragnaros on actual players!!

    Now if you want to pvp you have to have grind battlegrounds and get a whole new set thats exactly the same as everyone else. If you try to use your pve gear you'll get demolished. Go back to the system where PVP gear had more STAMINA but slightly less offensive stats. It was amazing back in the day when you'd have priests stacking stamina and dodge % and all that good stuff.
    Yeh and i had to raid 5/7 to do PvP, becouse for locks pvp set was a dogshit compared to pve counterparts.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 02:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    What the what...? It can't be BiS because both arenas and raids can now provide same level loot. Now heroic elite level gear from raids is equivalent to loot obtainable from 2600 rated arenas. LFR level loot is available from random bgs. Normal mode level loot is available at 1300-1600 rating.
    Get real, on most BGs 2600 is R1 or top 10 material, whille few guilds per normally populated server clear HM by the mid of patch and dozens of them by the end.

  12. #172
    Holy god do you people even read? I said HEROIC ELITE level gear. Not heroic. That's the content that the world's best guilds JUST downed about a week ago for the first time.

    Heroic mode would be more akin to 2200.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Holy god do you people even read? I said HEROIC ELITE level gear. Not heroic. That's the content that the world's best guilds JUST downed about a week ago for the first time.

    Heroic mode would be more akin to 2200.
    2200 > Heroic.

    Sorry but the comparison between PvE and PvP is bad. Everyone will eventually down heroic modes simply by running head first into the boss for weeks and if only because the boss dies of laughter. In PvP only a small minority can hit those numbers, without the massive wintrading going on before the numbers would be even smaller.

  14. #174
    It's not even about pvp gear, at low level, atm made a warrior and playing at 20-24 bracket with best possible gear and there's no way to kill singular healer alone, extremely hard and long with 2 players also. Takes at least 3 people to get that kind of burst and stuns. Problem is the ridiculous mana regen and the new long cd's on interrupts. Paladins and priests with equal level gear cannot go oom at anypoint, even shadowpriests can keep themselves fully topped without losing mana in 1vs1. Druids and shamans on the other hand are killable a lot easier. Disc priests at low levels are immortals, Also playing disc at the same bracket and it took 7 out of 10 hordes in wsg to finally kill me, i just kept shielding up at 100% mana. That's insane, it's like 100% uptime paladin bubble. I don't know about the scaling on max level, but it would be nice if the 20 minute wsg was like a battleground and not 2 healers standing with a tank and enemy flag being immortal while 7 people are trying to get their own flag while facing the same immortal part of the opposing team for full 20 minutes, eventually resulting tie.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by rede View Post
    It's not even about pvp gear, at low level, atm made a warrior and playing at 20-24 bracket with best possible gear and there's no way to kill singular healer alone, extremely hard and long with 2 players also. Takes at least 3 people to get that kind of burst and stuns. Problem is the ridiculous mana regen and the new long cd's on interrupts. Paladins and priests with equal level gear cannot go oom at anypoint, even shadowpriests can keep themselves fully topped without losing mana in 1vs1. Druids and shamans on the other hand are killable a lot easier. Disc priests at low levels are immortals, Also playing disc at the same bracket and it took 7 out of 10 hordes in wsg to finally kill me, i just kept shielding up at 100% mana. That's insane, it's like 100% uptime paladin bubble. I don't know about the scaling on max level, but it would be nice if the 20 minute wsg was like a battleground and not 2 healers standing with a tank and enemy flag being immortal while 7 people are trying to get their own flag while facing the same immortal part of the opposing team for full 20 minutes, eventually resulting tie.
    Max level is nothing like that as long as people have similar gear. In fact burst is far worse then healing at the moment. You can drop full PvP geared people with CD's in no time whatsoever.

  16. #176
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR - USA
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Why must there be a pve vs pvp gear debate at all?
    Because PVP'ers do not want to be shit on by some guy wearing BIS stuff, just because they are in a guild who can clear Heroics. If you have good gear in PVP, they (and I kinda agree) want it to be cause you are good at PVP, not because you are good at PVE.

  17. #177
    I dont even understand why people would want PvE and PvP to be related? It's two totaly different aspects of the game, so the gear should be totaly different aswell. And thats where PvP stats come in.
    If they make it so PvE gear become BiS in PvP again, I'll consider quiting the game. So tired of PvE, and I wont be arsed to force my self to do it because I need items from it to be somewhat usefull in PvP (Yeah, I'm not high rated atm. But as a first season focusing on PvP I realy enjoy it the way it is now.).

    And to those that say its unfair that Malevolent is better than their HC Dungeon gear - for real? Its epic vs blue. Its on another lvl, if you want to compare, compare Dreadfull to your PvE blues. (And yes I know some items from PvP got pretty decent stats, as an example I used the Malevolent cape and Waist in my Ret PvE set in the beginning before I gave up PvE, because they gave me a shitload of hit, but the fact is that I would get even better gear if I was lucky and got some PvE epics to replace them.)

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    2200 > Heroic.

    Sorry but the comparison between PvE and PvP is bad. Everyone will eventually down heroic modes simply by running head first into the boss for weeks and if only because the boss dies of laughter. In PvP only a small minority can hit those numbers, without the massive wintrading going on before the numbers would be even smaller.
    People can buy 2200 carries. There are so many people now with a 2200 in either arena or rbg or both its not really a factor. You want to compare? Try comparing Gladiator/Hero of the Alliance to heroic mode raiders of the same calibre. 2200 might as well be nothing now so I don't really understand why you think such a small minority of people have a 2200 achievement.

    If pve is so easy, then why do pvp players even bother complaining about being "forced" to do it? I mean, it's not like its a challenge right? Do the raid, "run face first into the boss", pick up bis gear, profit?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    People can buy 2200 carries. There are so many people now with a 2200 in either arena or rbg or both its not really a factor. You want to compare? Try comparing Gladiator/Hero of the Alliance to heroic mode raiders of the same calibre. 2200 might as well be nothing now so I don't really understand why you think such a small minority of people have a 2200 achievement.

    If pve is so easy, then why do pvp players even bother complaining about being "forced" to do it? I mean, it's not like its a challenge right? Do the raid, "run face first into the boss", pick up bis gear, profit?
    Raiding is easy, if you find the guild to do it with. Heck, you can buy BiS items from HC raids aswell as that rating from RBG/Arena. If you got gold, or cash, you can get anything you want.
    By the way, I dont believe it is that "many" with 2.2k rating that have bought it. As it cost an arm and a leg to get it (Had to ask someone and they wanted 150 euros from 1.5k - 2.2k RBG rating, another one wanted 70k gold), so I guess someone is able to pay it - but no the average player.

  20. #180
    I may not have come across some of the issues others point out. What I have came across is the lack of a blue pvp weapon.
    I dinged my mage to 90 early this week, he is meant to play PVP only. With 2/5th dreadful and 3/5th contenders he has roughly 5000 pvp power (for 20% increase damage vs players). With upgrades to dreadful, usage of some gems I can probably get to 6000 pvp power or 24%. But it will takes weeks for me to get a weapon. The weapon has like 5000 pvp power itself. That would double my pvp power! I don't underestand why i can't get a weapon that has 2000-3000 pvp power, something small but that wouldn't make me feel to so gimp. I mean look at it.
    To simplify at 20% dmg, i can increase my gear and get to 25%, or I could get a weapon and double it to 40%. Meanwhile most people are having a ton of malovelent gear and at least t1 weapons. I don't mind being undergeared at all, I just think that if you put half the pvp power on the weapon then you realize ppl are gonna be incredibly gimped for like a month.

    As I write this I realize I should check to see if crafted weapons will come with 5.2 since that's basically perfect solution to what I think is a problem currently. You can google "Crafted Dreadful Gladiator's Spellblade" and see that there could very well be some. Whether they become available or not we will just have to see, but even that crafted one hand weapon has 4200 pvp power. Which kind of reinforces my point, that is just way too much of such a crucial stat to not allow players to have some of.
    And just to be clear, I have no real problem going up against people with way better gear than me, as long as my gear is the proper blue set I don't feel gimped and I will lose because I make mistakes and be able to play the game.

    Now in general PVP stats, I love them. It forces you to equip PVP gear, like at least for now even special trinkets aren't gonna be awesome. There is no more sneaking your pvp character into 25man heroic raids in order to get best in slot neck/ring for your arena only character. In turn, everyone is gonna have a same setup, same set bonus type stuff. What it really should allow is for blizzard to then start tweaking the system since it has become consistent. That's where the real power of it all will come from.
    I have to gear my character further to see how pvp stats are working out and how powerful they are.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •