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  1. #1

    No Ghostcrawler, rogues are not ok

    So there I was in a 2v2 match the other day running mage/rogue (I play the rogue and I'm a pretty good player) and we come across a Destro warlock/Spriest team. In previous seasons this team would have been completely non-viable and a total joke that I only come across below 1500mmr (Not somewhere I often am). The warlock is specced into the ability that increases AOE ability radius by 500%. Now my question before I explain what happened in the arena is who on planet earth thought that spec was a good idea? Its hard enough as it was to get a clean opener in arena without that crap and a clean opener is the entire advantage of playing a stealth class is it not? So you maybe can guess what happened, the lock runs into the middle of the Nagrand arena and casts Reign of Fire at his max range. The AOE was so huge and came so fast that there was statistically no way to LOS the Spell without using a cooldown ability (Sprint) or speccing into Nightstalker (Which is actually a pretty bad spec despite attempts to make all talents viable) and of course after that the priest runs around to where I am and casts Phsycic Horror (Disarm/Horrify). I died before the 10 second disarm was over because I wasnt ready for that kind of absurd burst and like most rogues I like to save cloak of shadows for a kill because against a caster team it is the ONLY way to get a kill most of the time.

    I hope GC reads this, please discuss problems and solutions for stealth classes.

  2. #2
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Australia.
    Posts
    163
    You got outplayed and your putting it down to rogues not being okay?

  3. #3
    We know. They don't.

  4. #4
    I laugh at rogues when I do arenas...
    Like no... really... I do...
    I play Holy Paladin, and if there's a rogue in an arena team we literally ignore it rarely even bothering to CC it till we've killed its partner because its dmg is so low that we don't even have to worry...

    Kinda sad, Both me and my partner used to play rogues, he for a long time, and I did good chunk of cata, now I'm back to my paladin, because its kinda depressing really...

  5. #5
    You call running into a fight and pressing 1 instant cast button resulting in an AOE spell with a 100 yard diameter and knocking the stealth out of stealth "getting outplayed"? LOL bro

  6. #6
    I completely agree with the OP about that talent. I mean we have always had to be careful and anticipate where people might drop their GTAoE spells, but wtf is with these room wide AE spells like spriests new move and the lock talent... At least the spriest one you can shadowstep over (and then have the complete joy of waiting 24 seconds for it to be off CD despite the other team not having to use any peels). There were plenty of ways to catch us in Cata, and if we are going to be continually balanced assuming we open, they need to stop making it insanely hard to open.

  7. #7
    Shadow Walk will fix it lol.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sionorra View Post
    I hope GC reads this, please discuss problems and solutions for stealth classes.
    Shouldn't you post on the actual forums then where they read feedback instead of here?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Shadow Walk will fix it lol.
    Shadow walk does not fix this issue. It only makes your stealth more stealthy. I does not prevent you from being removed from stealth by a 100 yard diameter AOE. Trust me this talent needs to be reworked, I thought through alot of angles of it before posting.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 05:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    Shouldn't you post on the actual forums then where they read feedback instead of here?
    GC does come and read MMO champ forums somewhat frequently from what I've seen.

  10. #10
    Abilities like talented Rain of Fire or Halo are ridiculous. Halo animation is much slower and has a shorter range than the actual spell, so you can be hit from 8-10 yd away from the end of the animation. I have video proof as well : http://www.twitch.tv/ecliptium/b/335379053 Go to 1:07:47 for it.

    Also, Rain of Fire, I can't see the area like I can with Death and Decay or Blizzard. I see random mini-fireballs dropping in a wide area so I have no idea where I can step or not.

    These two and Faerie Fire annoy me. A lot.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  11. #11
    I do have to say that rogue burst is freaking insane. Sub can do some pretty large burst every sdance, but with sblades, my target normally drops from 100 to near 0 in a sdance.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Grawlix View Post
    I do have to say that rogue burst is freaking insane. Sub can do some pretty large burst every sdance, but with sblades, my target normally drops from 100 to near 0 in a sdance.
    Acceptable burst from stacking cooldowns, one of them three minutes, should not be something only sib rogues have. Being so muted outside of that sucks, and plenty of ither specs burst both more and more often.


    Lock aoe with the unstealth talent is terrible and needs to go.

  13. #13
    A few social rouges in our guild were complaining the other day and I think its hilarious. "My toon isnt the same op toon it was last xpac and I dont wanna have to actually learn anything new so Ill complain". Bottom line is there is a way for you to kill that team you and your partner just need more work with new spells/mechanics. Just because you face rolled casters before doesnt mean that its gonna be the same in the new season.

  14. #14
    Some people cry too much, it's true, but other people really don't understand that rogues are fairly weak in some aspects. Our toolkit isn't as shiny as it used to be. Making us choose between sstep and prep should have never been implemented; it was a sizable nerf to both mobility and control. S10 rogues were probably about where we needed to be. Taking bomb off prep would have balanced us just fine imo. (Mind you, cloak and evasion weren't a part of prep back then. That on top of shadowstep would be ridiculous.)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Superpudd View Post
    A few social rouges in our guild were complaining the other day and I think its hilarious. "My toon isnt the same op toon it was last xpac and I dont wanna have to actually learn anything new so Ill complain". Bottom line is there is a way for you to kill that team you and your partner just need more work with new spells/mechanics. Just because you face rolled casters before doesnt mean that its gonna be the same in the new season.
    "I know nothing of -insert class- but I'm going to pretend I do anyway!" is also one of my personal favorites.
    Rogues were virtually unchanged, going from Cata to MOP. We're not viable because we're not viable... Not because people suck.

  16. #16
    i find it funny you say rogues are not oke. yet you complain about stuff from a warlock/spriest. so instead of whining at your own class whine at the warlock 500% aoe range talent.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by loki505 View Post
    i find it funny you say rogues are not oke. yet you complain about stuff from a warlock/spriest. so instead of whining at your own class whine at the warlock 500% aoe range talent.
    Why is it funny? A large part of out not being "viable" as he put it has to do with other classes having abilities which completely counter ours. Our class is balanced around sapping and opening, yet stuff like that lock ae talent completely makes it useless and takes virtually no skill to do.

  18. #18
    2v2 (arena isn't balanced ar
    without using a cooldown (so you could use it)
    I wasnt ready (right so they outplayed you)
    I like to save (well you shouldn't save your cooldown)

    You just got outplayed, even if you couldn't get a opener you could have done other things but didn't. YOu could have used CloS and prevented their burst on you but didn't.

    Your opponents rushed in, forced you out of stealth and then burst you down with everything they have. You however decided to save your abilities and just take the damage.

    I kind of doubt your a ''pretty good player'' because good players know when they have to use their cooldowns.

    Maybe the aeo range is to much, but in this case you lost because you expected to survive at least 8 secs without doing shit.

  19. #19
    I will give you that he obviously could have done several things better in that match. The absurdity of their 500% larger RoF still stands though so long as we are balanced assuming we can (or at least have a reasonable chance to) sap and open.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I will give you that he obviously could have done several things better in that match. The absurdity of their 500% larger RoF still stands though so long as we are balanced assuming we can (or at least have a reasonable chance to) sap and open.
    I agree with the guy that thought this thread was funny. Your entire complaint is with a warlock talent. You haven't explained in any way how rogues need to be changed, only that other classes need attention. This is exactly what GC said.

    A few posts ago two people agreed that rogue burst is fine when cooldown stacking. GC said rogue damage is fine and other classes need to be brought down. So another agreement.

    You call the man the wrong and the thread goes on to read that he is exactly right, unless you want to offer up something else to discuss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinoashi View Post
    He doesn't need a source to know that he pretty much hit the nail on the head.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.” - Christopher Hitchens

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