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  1. #81
    Is mage/priest a comp right now? It think a rogue would have a hard time staying on mage/priest in a meaningful way. I don't really 2s much so I don't know. I only 2s for points, which is like gay for pay, but dirtier :P

  2. #82
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    No. Rating doesn't mean a thing and definitely not in 2v2. What matters here is how the match played out. At what rating that was really doesn't matter a flying fuck.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 10:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Is mage/priest a comp right now? It think a rogue would have a hard time staying on mage/priest in a meaningful way. I don't really 2s much so I don't know. I only 2s for points, which is like gay for pay, but dirtier :P
    Hardly anybody gives anything about 2v2. Hence you see so many gladiator level players at sub 1800 rating there. Because nobody really cares and just does them for points.

    Mage Priest is an imposseble comp to beat for any Rogue comp but Rogue Hunter. Not because of mobility, but because of Void Shift.

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  3. #83
    Yesterday I ran 3s. We fought a decent number of double melee comps, where I had few to no problems staying on target (warrior mobility can be used for escape pretty easily), but also some games were fought against double ranged- for instance, lock / mage / healer. Even specced burst of speed, my uptime was simply abysmal, as they poop CCs at me. Even a promptly dispelled fear wouldn't end with me on target, though a feral or warrior in that situation absolutely would be back on target very fast, and a DK wouldn't be hurt so much by that kind of kiting, and of course a ret would be fine there. Only an enhance would have felt about as Waddle-And-Pray as I did, and enhance isn't as bad as rogue at ranged. That tells me that our mobility is bad- if the enemies want to not be near me, they can just not be near me.

  4. #84
    Yep, I agree with most points.
    The class is boring and uninspired at the moment, and anybody could have seen it coming since MoP beta.
    Too much passive damage, slow playstyle, horribad mobility and above all, outdated mechanics and the worst talent tree without a doubt.
    Things like Dirty Tricks or SS should have been baseline since TBC. Leeching and Paralytic are quite interesting, but who's gonna take both when they lock each other out? They should be in the same tier, doesnt make sense. They didn't even bother giving us animations for our new major abilites except Crimson Tempest.
    Last edited by Stannis; 2012-11-06 at 07:51 PM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Yesterday I ran 3s. We fought a decent number of double melee comps, where I had few to no problems staying on target (warrior mobility can be used for escape pretty easily), but also some games were fought against double ranged- for instance, lock / mage / healer. Even specced burst of speed, my uptime was simply abysmal, as they poop CCs at me. Even a promptly dispelled fear wouldn't end with me on target, though a feral or warrior in that situation absolutely would be back on target very fast, and a DK wouldn't be hurt so much by that kind of kiting, and of course a ret would be fine there. Only an enhance would have felt about as Waddle-And-Pray as I did, and enhance isn't as bad as rogue at ranged. That tells me that our mobility is bad- if the enemies want to not be near me, they can just not be near me.
    It's you and your partners responsibility to minimize incoming control. If they do not suffice at that, then you will be sitting a lot of it. Lock Mage should actually be pretty easy, just go for the lock instead.

    Also, don't ever spec burst of speed. It's a horrible talent that should in no circumstance even be considered.

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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    It's you and your partners responsibility to minimize incoming control. If they do not suffice at that, then you will be sitting a lot of it.
    We should not be reliant on another class for our mobility. Plain and simple. Yes, it's your partner's job to help, but it should not be a crutch and we should not need to be babysat. There will always be mistakes made, as pointed out enhance is one of the only other melee classes that suffers so harshly from said mistakes, and to a lesser degree than rogues. Our mobility is poor, there is no 2 ways around it. If your partner is cc'd or for some other reason can not clear your cc/snare immediately a warriors, rets, ferals, dk's all have multiple options to get back to their target/bring their target to them/dps from ranged. We have 1 sure way and 1 way on a minute CD that is countered by any snare in the game. Have read this thread, have watched your video (as pointed out, your video about mobility showed none of it), your head is in the sand or you simply like to argue for the sake of arguing.

  7. #87
    We shouldn't, but actually we are (like in most coop games). It plays a lot in the grand scheme of things - we are balanced around not being auto-sufficient and around the synergies between classes.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tavalus View Post
    We should not be reliant on another class for our mobility. Plain and simple. Yes, it's your partner's job to help, but it should not be a crutch and we should not need to be babysat. There will always be mistakes made, as pointed out enhance is one of the only other melee classes that suffers so harshly from said mistakes, and to a lesser degree than rogues. Our mobility is poor, there is no 2 ways around it. If your partner is cc'd or for some other reason can not clear your cc/snare immediately a warriors, rets, ferals, dk's all have multiple options to get back to their target/bring their target to them/dps from ranged. We have 1 sure way and 1 way on a minute CD that is countered by any snare in the game. Have read this thread, have watched your video (as pointed out, your video about mobility showed none of it), your head is in the sand or you simply like to argue for the sake of arguing.
    In High rated arena we should. That's how the game works and nobody there would like to see it any other way.

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  9. #89
    Showed my support on EU, great piece of work.

    while I honestly love my class I feel we've become less defined every expansion. The state we're in now is just awful, uninspired, toss. Warlocks get an overhaul, a new spell and now an entire questline so they can get green fire! We press Shadow Walk or Shadow Blades and almost nothing happens.

    There's so much potential for this class, so many ideas that could work and they've done nothing.

  10. #90
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    While its true that the class may need some minor changes for damage and mobility the main problem for me remains the depth of the class right now. At least for me that is.
    Since Cata the class got gutted and simplified in a lot of ways. Some of those changes may look like QoL changes for some fellows here(like the "new" Vanish which came with the 4.0 patch) tho i didnt like that. Also i think that a cooldown on shiv is retarded and the current state of pvp is just dull compared to what is was in the past. But that may just be me. Luckily i stopped pvping all along after S8. I just miss that "outplay" feeling when you totally crush multiple players all by yourself in a bg or maybe even in some arena matches just by playing well. Imho that isnt possible anymore.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    In High rated arena we should. That's how the game works and nobody there would like to see it any other way.
    In high rated arena we should be the only class the requires being babysat? That is absurd. In high rated arena it should most definitely be about cooperation and teamwork but we should not need, nor be the only ones which is almost definitely the case right now, that require our team mates to make sure we can have almost any mobility. I am in no way saying that we should be unstoppable, un-ccable or something of that nature but the pendulum is far, far too much in the one direction. Rogues are meant to be mobile, it is part of the classes nature both previously in this game, and historically in the classes general design. We are an agile, mobile, fast moving class. Right now, that is far from the case and we are, of the melee (and likely of any class/spec) the easiest to pin down and take out of the equation.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by tavalus View Post
    In high rated arena we should be the only class the requires being babysat? That is absurd.
    This exactly.

    Holo, implying I should "sit the lock" is a bit silly too. Pretend that this advice is in fact accurate. In that case, a good enemy team would know that, and would simply play hide-the-lock, and since you can respec at the start of the match, he'd be sure to get dark bargain, a bubble with a very low cooldown. Meanwhile, the mage could change up assuming he can free cast, and without legitimately fearing a hard swap as they would versus any other melee over me, it's fair to say that they would counter me- and that this isn't just limited to mage/lock. Also note that while locks are less mobile than mages, it's not by the degree you might think. The lock portal has a cooldown about the same as shadowstep, and can port safely out of sight, and then he can also make distance with his second set of group portals, which also boosts mobility on the mage, who didn't need any help.

    Pretending that my partners should magically stop all CC is wishful thinking. Mages and locks both have hard cast CC with no cooldown- that stuff will absolutely get out. The best any nongib team is expected to manage is to interrupt these when there is a kill on the line (cooldowns committed or spinning), not merely for a setup. Mages and locks both also have instant CC with short cooldowns.

    Mobility is the problem. We don't really have many high rated rogue heroes (most of them having rerolled), but our standings are absolute garbage compared to previous seasons- even seasons where we were undertuned.

    Thus far, you haven't demonstrated otherwise. Games where you sit melee or gib healers with an all dps team simply don't demonstrate jack shit about mobility. Saying that it's absolutely ok to never be able to swap while other melee have up to four gap closers is just silly.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by tavalus View Post
    In high rated arena we should be the only class the requires being babysat?
    Please get a clue about pvp before argueing with me. I'll save you going into your post any further.

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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Please get a clue about pvp before argueing with me. I'll save you going into your post any further.
    Wait, this coming from the guy with 1400 arena rating, along with posting a video trying to explain how rogue mobility is fine, when all the video explained was how to beat average players who love to go toe-to-toe with you at an average rating.

    Oh yeah, you also tried to argue your opinion in a different thread (but generally the same topic) against a current 2.4k rogue, whom no matter his comp, I'm probably betting he has more experience at this moment in time than you.

    All I can see from your post is you arguing against many people, while spouting stupid comments like "get some xp plz in pvp", and when finally someone who is extremely high rated replies, you go "lol lawl easy comp opinion is irrelevant".
    Last edited by T18Z; 2012-11-08 at 12:23 AM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by T18Z View Post
    Wait, this coming from the guy with 1650 arena rating, along with posting a video trying to explain how rogue mobility is fine, when all the video explained was how to beat average players who love to go toe-to-toe with you at an average rating.

    Oh yeah, you also tried to argue your opinion against a current 2.4k rogue, whom no matter his comp, I'm probably betting he has more experience at this moment in time than you.

    All I can see from your post is you arguing against many people, while spouting stupid comments like "get some xp plz in pvp", and when finally someone who is extremely high rated replies, you go "lol lawl easy comp opinion is irrelevant".
    First off, you know nothing about me.

    Secondly, no.

    Thirdly if you consider 2.4 as extremely high, and even with that comp (lol), you are either mentally challenged inexperienced or just generally don't have a clue about PvP.

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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9249892?page=1

    All the feedback contained here, created for the entire duration of beta, are echoes of the concerns our community is voicing today. To put it bluntly, we have proof that we have been ignored.
    Oh wow you caught Blizzard out! When's the ceremony where you get your medal?

    I looked through your thread and some of the concerns have merit, I think your attitude pretty much renders all your effort useless though.

    P.S. Rogues could use some improvements sure, some things about them are a bit dumb or stale, there might even be a case for giving them a big overhaul and changing some class fundamentals (which will alienate a lot of Rogues who like their class the way it is of course). But they're not in some kind of terrible state like you're saying. Just being a drama queen frankly.

  17. #97
    First off, get a clue yourself. You don't know anyone's experience anymore than they apparently know yours, are you stupid? Stop acting like you can "rightfully" claim who knows anything about anything from a post. I did the same to you in regards to your shit rating, and guess what... you got butthurt.

    Secondly, yeah.

    Thirdly, rating isn't as high as it used to be. Did I say 2.4 is the best rating possible? No, but it is in the high-end of the spectrum, unless you are of course blind. Insulting the comp someone plays, when you aren't even close to that rating, or haven't been for a while possibly is pretty stupid.
    Last edited by T18Z; 2012-11-08 at 12:47 AM.

  18. #98
    Closing the thread. Again it's becoming too personal and we don't need other threads like this.
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