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  1. #1

    Question(s) Regarding: Hit cap vs. Non-hit cap DPS

    Hey all.

    Was wondering if anyone knows the DPS loss/gain of being hit capped vs. not being hit capped.

    I myself run with 15% hit exactly, since im usually lazy and the idea of having to refresh my dots more than usuall didnt seem so pleasing to me, but now im thinking that i might aswell give it a go if it is enough of a DPS gain.

    So, what is the dps gain to be capped vs. not being capped in Mogu'shan? Including Heroic modes if there is a difference.

    The one fight where i feel that i might not want to go with the "not hit capped" is Will of the Emperor, due to all of the SB:SS'ing on adds (tho on Heroic mode im guesing that wont be as much of a problem)

  2. #2
    I go everytime with hitcap since I dont like the idea of being RNG dependent. Missing a Haunt, HoG, any dots or a Havoc would be realy annoying.

    So far we have done 2/6 hc as a casual guild and I dont see any situations, where nonhitcap would be better.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killem View Post
    I go everytime with hitcap since I dont like the idea of being RNG dependent. Missing a Haunt, HoG, any dots or a Havoc would be realy annoying.

    So far we have done 2/6 hc as a casual guild and I dont see any situations, where nonhitcap would be better.
    I tend to agree. In a perfect patchwork fight, I don't see any problems with not going for hitcap, if that is what the simcraft says gives the best dps.

    In the real world, though, you have fights like Elegon where you absolutely have to be able to count on a cast going through at the right time (energy charges), and while you might lose a bit of dps to being hitcapped, at least you won't potentially ruin an attempt because your cast missed and you couldn't kill your add in time. Hopefully that would never happen, but if there is one thinkg you can count on, it is that RNG is random and will screw you over from time to time.

    edit: apparently the energy charges are level 90 anyways, so you don't need much hit to count on not missing. You may be safe not going for cap, but I still hate the RNG for timing-sensitive casts.
    Last edited by Lordcrimmeh; 2012-10-29 at 09:14 AM.

  4. #4
    If you feel lucky, your dps will be much higher without hit cap. HC is your safety ticket - you are sure you won't miss Haunt, Chaos Bolt or stull like that and ruin your dps.

  5. #5
    Why does everybody bring up Elegon in this context? The energy charges are level 90.

  6. #6
    Thanks for the replies.

    Anyone that knows what the DPs gain is to go Non-hit cap? vs. Hit capped?

    Ofcourse i know it differs from gear, but an average DPS gain?

  7. #7
    its simple.
    lets say you do 80k dps.
    15% hit is 5100points

    15% miss would be 12k dps.
    5% miss is 4k dps

    5% hit is 1700points for 4k dps
    if 1700mastery/haste/crit gives you 4k dps, you would be same dps on a boss, and 4k more on adds.

    most important here, even if you do 140k dps, 1700rating is a small number, not worth reforging out of hit to potentially gain 1-2k dps.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by purefury View Post
    its simple.
    lets say you do 80k dps.
    15% hit is 5100points

    15% miss would be 12k dps.
    5% miss is 4k dps

    5% hit is 1700points for 4k dps
    if 1700mastery/haste/crit gives you 4k dps, you would be same dps on a boss, and 4k more on adds.

    most important here, even if you do 140k dps, 1700rating is a small number, not worth reforging out of hit to potentially gain 1-2k dps.
    Extending your calculation to answer Miothan's question, multiply 1700 rating by Hit's stat weight (let's say 1.1) and multiply 1700 rating by Mastery's weight (ballpark ~1.8). This napkin math gives us 1700 * .7, or about 1200 DPS. The point about add damage is good though - especially for Elegon.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by purefury View Post
    its simple.
    lets say you do 80k dps.
    15% hit is 5100points

    15% miss would be 12k dps.
    5% miss is 4k dps

    5% hit is 1700points for 4k dps
    if 1700mastery/haste/crit gives you 4k dps, you would be same dps on a boss, and 4k more on adds.

    most important here, even if you do 140k dps, 1700rating is a small number, not worth reforging out of hit to potentially gain 1-2k dps.
    This is ridiculously oversimplified. You don't lose 5% DPS from missing 5% of the time.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miothan View Post
    Anyone that knows what the DPs gain is to go Non-hit cap? vs. Hit capped?

    Ofcourse i know it differs from gear, but an average DPS gain?
    There's no such thing as an "average," you'll really just have to sim yourself. Plot yourself with stat weights that are free (don't go out of your way to hit cap), then plot yourself with stat weights that force hit cap and set hit > cap to zero. Then compare.

  11. #11
    i personally dont like play without hitcap so my tip is play on hitcap get 4717 haste and stack mastery of doom ??? profit

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by noemiNQQB View Post
    i personally dont like play without hitcap so my tip is play on hitcap get 4717 haste and stack mastery of doom ??? profit
    Thats what i do atm ^^

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Miothan View Post
    Thanks for the replies.

    Anyone that knows what the DPs gain is to go Non-hit cap? vs. Hit capped?

    Ofcourse i know it differs from gear, but an average DPS gain?
    That depends heavily on the mechanics of the class/spec in question. Affliction is less dependent on being hit capped as losses incurred from missing only delay a DOT (GCD whiff, recast!) and have limited effect on the overall execution. Demo/Destro are penalized more for a miss, as they generate their resources on a hit and use far more direct nukes that calculate their miss at the end of the cast.
    Warlock DOT Haste Spreadsheet 5.4 - Level 90

  14. #14
    the reason why hit is simmed worse tha mastery and haste is bcoz simcraft is a computer generated program that is capable instantly reapplying a dot when you miss, a human being isnt capable of such feats.

  15. #15
    Does it mater?

    Missing a haunt is a bigger dps lose then gaining stats

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    the reason why hit is simmed worse tha mastery and haste is bcoz simcraft is a computer generated program that is capable instantly reapplying a dot when you miss, a human being isnt capable of such feats.
    This is false. The simulator includes a realistic human reaction time before reapplying a missed dot or haunt.

  17. #17
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    i'm running a 11.83% ( this would be 3,17% under the hit cap) hit spec as affliction and, based on last night's logs ( 3 Elegon tries ( 2 fails+1 kill) and 6 Will tries ( 5 fails+ 1 kill)), i've ended up with the following misses:

    BoA - 10, UA -10, Corr - 6, MG - 2, DS - 2, SS - 6 ( damage component probably, don't remember a SB:SS where all dots missed), SoC - 3, Haunt - 1, Stormlash - 3.

    This added up to 43 misses out of a total of 4709 casts, which resulted in a 0.91% miss ratio. Considering i'm at 3.17% under the hit cap, i'd say investing in extra mastery instead of hit is worth it, for me atleast, plus i've gotten used to this hit cap and react pretty quick to a miss => everyone should run a spec they're comfortable playing with, be it hitcapped or not.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexeer View Post
    This added up to 43 misses out of a total of 4709 casts, which resulted in a 0.91% miss ratio. Considering i'm at 3.17% under the hit cap
    As others have mentioned in other threads, the reason for this is the level of adds - all the adds on Will (Rage, Strength, Courage) and the Protector on Elegon are level 92, resulting in you only being .17% under cap, and all the other adds on Elegon (Energy Charges, Empyreal Focus, Cosmic Spark) are level 90, so you're capped against those.
    Last edited by Rustjive; 2012-10-30 at 03:30 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    If you feel lucky, your dps will be much higher without hit cap.
    This is false. Your dps will simulate SLIGHTLY higher without hit cap, but in practice it would barely increase at all and will vary considerably.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-10-30 at 03:10 PM.

  20. #20
    This feels like TBC again where you had to argue with other casters that getting hitcapped was better then that little bit of extra crit or spellpower.

    Missing a single dot was never the biggest dps lose (it is still high but still) however a warlock missing a important debuff is a big dps lose.

    Missing haunt or SB: Soulswap as affliction warlock or missing chaos bolt as destro is a huge dps lose and can fuck up your rotation. Back in tbc you could mess up your dps as a destro lock by missing shadowbolt (and thus not applying the 20% debuff) while their are other warlocks in the raid that uses Shadowbolt (other shadow attacks would use up a charge).

    Whatever the case as a raider your first priority needs to be to remove any uncertainty.

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