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  1. #61
    Brewmaster ghostblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    It would be an instance. Since everything from the AH, to the bank, to JP vendors for Cata and such are in Org, it wouldn't be an outdoor encounter. The only question is: Where would the raid entrance be?
    perhaps on a ship off the coast of Azshara or Durotar. Or a gunship just somewhere on pandaria.

  2. #62
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    One thing I did dislike about Dragon Soul was the lack of backstory and information on the bosses. It also didn't tie together very well with the other parts of the expansion (seems like none of the T11 deathwing storyline made it to DS).

    On the other hand, I'm really looking forward to Siege of Orgrimmar bosses, just from the lore, and I hope Blizzard doesn't disappoint us there. Already some speculated Thalen Songweaver might be a boss, and other than that I would love to see "representatives" from most Horde races in there (perhaps throw in the Trade Prince?).

    From the little I've read on Wowpedia, Malkorok sounds like he would be a very interesting penultimate boss, one I'm possibly looking forward to more than Garrosh. On the other hand, if we just kill him off in 5.1/5.2, I'd be quite disappointed.

  3. #63
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    I don't know why there should be a problem with dragonblight...
    DW went after the aspects. And their base was where? Wyrmrest Temple, Dragonblight.
    Where else should we've fought him, if not there?

    Besides Naaru, what else we mortals got on allies other than the aspects? And they were threatened as well.

  4. #64
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    I genuinely think you are the first person I've ever seen that thinks Dragonsoul didn't suck.
    I didn't think it sucked. Wasn't as great as other raids like Ulduar and Karazhan, but I didn't think it sucked.

    I for one don't understand why people freaked out about how Dragon Blight was "reused" in DS. Why is it a bad thing for major lore events to occur out in the world rather than in yet another bad guy's lair?

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  5. #65
    I really don't think the problem with Dragon Soul was the fact that it happened in a 'reused' environment. And really, the last 2 fights were something impressive, at least from an art and design perspective.

    My biggest problem with Dragon Soul was simply that it didn't really have any supporting content, especially now comparing it to what's available in MoP. By the time DS hit, everyone who wanted to was exalted with all the available factions. There weren't any real daily hubs or quest chains to keep us busy on off-nights. LFR had a lot of issues, but the worst was making it drop gear that made all previous content obselete, meaning you either did Dragon Soul on LFR/normal/heroic, or you were just doing irrelevant content which doesn't feel good to most people.

    I'll put it this way. During DS, I did 3 things in wow. Raided 1-2 nights a week, usually on my main but swapping in one of my alts every now and then. Did some playing of the AH, mostly just because I had a lot of stuff I could sell and felt like making some money before MoP. And worked on acheivements on my main, primarily Loremaster and older raiding acheives. And after all that, I still ended up just playing starcraft instead most nights and even just dropping WoW entirely for a few weeks at the end of DS and a few weeks at the beginning of MoP because I just didn't have much faith in things changing.

    However, in MoP, there's stuff for me to do on off-nights. I feel like the gear progression path will be a little more linear and less of 'go do LFR for a few times, then only raid the latest tier of content'. Between dailies, faction rep, pet battles, scenarios, dungeons that once again give meaningful gear (and the promise that valor won't be completely worthless to geared raiders with the new upgrade system), things look much better from where I'm sitting.

  6. #66
    In my "worst nightmare" scenario, the raid on orgrimmar will simply reuse the existing orgrimmar with various bosses placed around the city, and the start of the raid will be a really long, drawn out vehicle fight that you can't skip.

  7. #67
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    My biggest problem with Dragon Soul was simply that it didn't really have any supporting content, especially now comparing it to what's available in MoP. By the time DS hit, everyone who wanted to was exalted with all the available factions. There weren't any real daily hubs or quest chains to keep us busy on off-nights. LFR had a lot of issues, but the worst was making it drop gear that made all previous content obselete, meaning you either did Dragon Soul on LFR/normal/heroic, or you were just doing irrelevant content which doesn't feel good to most people.
    Most raiders don't think this way. I know for a fact I could really do without the dailies and slow ass rep grinds. Personally, I enjoyed the content for DS in the sense that it was easy to level, easy to hit max-level, and I made a lot of good friends on my servers pugging DS on various 85's I had. I absolutely, absolutely despise most non-endgame "required" grinds.... would rather do them (achievement seeking/etc.) on my own time instead of having them reward gear and such.

    To be honest, if I were you, I'd have just joined a guild that raided more nights instead of doing 1-2 nights a week then begging for more dailies for the other 5-6.

  8. #68
    This was my first thought the moment I heard Garrosh was to be the final boss of MoP. More rehashed and boring content where we "excitingly" raid Orgrimmar and tackle someone I'm supposed to care about. Give me my lost temples, caves, and mystical beings instead of Orgrimmar and Orcs, please. Here's hoping Garrosh gets incredibly corrupted and we end up fighting him underneath Ragefire Chasm, which would actually be somewhat interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by granpachook View Post
    In my "worst nightmare" scenario, the raid on orgrimmar will simply reuse the existing orgrimmar with various bosses placed around the city, and the start of the raid will be a really long, drawn out vehicle fight that you can't skip.
    I share this sentiment completely.
    Last edited by Ryanlol; 2012-10-29 at 04:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    when I go to the carnival and drop 5 bucks on a -game- I don't bitch when I don't win the stuffed bear

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    It would actually be pretty cool if we were banished from Orgrimmar until a guild on server had defeated it.

    All this being said, Garrosh may not even be in Orgrimmar.
    They called it the Siege of Orgimmar. That is the official name. Wouldn't make sense if it wasn't even in Orgrimmar.

  10. #70
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Recycled? There is only 2 pieces of truly recycled content- ZA, and Naxxramas. Everything else is new stuff in old boxes.

    I personally did not like Dragon Soul for 3 reasons. The first is the piss poor background lore of nearly ALL the bosses (4 out of the 8 given SHOULD have been giving some background lore in some form or another, even if it was a one-time quest somewhere. Therazane could have mentioned Morchok, someone in Undercity could have mentioned Hagara, even if it was through random NPC /say, Blackhorn and Ultraxion could easily have been mentioned through quests, or random enemy NPC /say (I.E stealth near 2 Twilight Cultists, one says to the other (I've heard that Deathwing has been creating a true monstrosity) or (I saw one of Deathwing's personal bodyguards at a distance, he was HUGE) or something.

    Deathwing didn't make as much an appearance, even when we were fighting him, it didn't feel as though we were fighting him, but rather bunch of adds. (He should have made an appearance on Gunship Heroic in his humanoid form, or something.)

    The only 2 bosses that were ok, Lore-wise, are the 2 faceless ones.

    The second issue I had with the instance was the quality of the Deathwing fights themselves. It wasn't half as epic as downing Lich King, Ragnaros, or even ANY of the T11 bosses, including Magmaw! We never actually get to fight HIM, we just fight his toes, or his corrupted blood, or something, its all a bunch of ADD fighting with him yelling obscenities at us in the background. In the Deathwing Fights, Deathwing is simply background. Not quite so epic.

    The third issue is the repeating mechanics of the fight. With Lich King, Cho'Gall, Nef, Sinestra, and ESPECIALLY Ragnaros, you had to be on your toes, constantly watching out for fire, adds, one-shotting mechanics, ect. DS? I could do the ENTIRE raid, with the single exception of Hagara, in my sleep. Stack for a minute, then go somewhere for 20 seconds, then stack for another minute, thats pretty much what ALL the fights where. Deathwing fights themselves were even worse- You do the EXACT SAME DAMN THING for nearly the entire fight. Finally, the quality of Deathwing Heroic. Theres, what, 2 new mechanics for it? Corrupting Parasite, and Bloods. Bloods were the only hard thing to deal with, and thats only because they bugged out half the time. It is NOTHING compared to the epicness of Ragnaros Heroic, or the difficulty change between Cho'Gall, Al'Akir, Nef, and LK heroic compared to normal.

    DS was a crap instance. Murozond and Well of Eternity should have been a 5 boss raid. Even ToC was 100x better then DS.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Recycled? There is only 2 pieces of truly recycled content- ZA, and Naxxramas. Everything else is new stuff in old boxes.
    The reason a lot of us call Dragon Soul recycled content is as you mention, the lore as well as the mechanics for nearly every boss were missing. Usually when I'm bored with the raid content, I like to at least have an interesting "box" to do it in. If it's boring and an "old box" then it can either be considered nonexistent or recycled. I choose to label it as recycled.

    I'd be fine with the setting of the Siege of Orgrimmar or even Dragon Soul if the fights were on par with Ragnaros Heroic. They aren't, and we look for other things to pique our interest.

    Edit: A perfect example of the difference between recycled Dragon Soul and simply "using models because they fit" is the difference between DS and Heart of Fear bosses. Heart of Fear could have copy/pasted Mantid models as Dragon Soul pasted every single one of its own, but they instead chose to create genuinely unique and interesting models for each and every mantid boss. This creates a massive difference.
    Last edited by Ryanlol; 2012-10-29 at 05:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    when I go to the carnival and drop 5 bucks on a -game- I don't bitch when I don't win the stuffed bear

  12. #72
    Complainers gonna complain. This game is at a point where no matter what blizzard does, there will always be people to bitch about something. Its not the game, its the people. So far MoP is awesome, but some people were born to complain, so complain they will, about anything and everything. We haven't even seen 90% of this expansion yet and people are already like "FINAL MOP BOSS SUCKS". How do you know? Time Travel? Prophetic? Sit down children, no one is forcing you to play the game that the rest of us enjoy.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    I genuinely think you are the first person I've ever seen that thinks Dragonsoul didn't suck.
    DS did suck, but not because it was in Dragonblight.

  14. #74
    Anyone have any thoughts one what the 3 related dungeons are going to be? Like we got for ICC and DS?

    I'm thinking one of them could perhaps involve Gallywix taking over Bilgewater Harbour and then us having to take it back. Then the massive goblin canon can finally get used in the siege of Orgrimmar.

  15. #75
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Dragon Soul would have been fine if they stuck to recycling from one area of the game, or at least tied it together in a way that made sense. Right now it was just "here's a place in Borean Tundra, with some Ulduar thrown in, and some Malygos platforms, and another gunship fight, because... stuff". Seriously, what the hell did the Hagara fight have to do with anything? And why did we go into those damn squid holes when we had two airships full of bombs flying over them? Morchok made sense, and Ultraxion, and the gunship, and Deathwing, but overall it felt like half the bosses had nothing to do with the rest and none of the borrowing was warranted.

    At least for a Garrosh raid they might settle for only stealing Orgrimmar (or at least horde) stuff.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Ever since first hearing that Garrosh will be the final boss of the expansion I've felt nothing but indifference, bordering on disappointment. I'm not excited by the prospect of it at all, and to be honest, it sounds like a very easy way for Blizzard to be lazy again. In my heart I sense another Dragonsoul, where we will be fighting some random horde related characters that no one really cares about, in what is essentially just Orgrimmar, like Dragonblight was reused for dragon soul.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    Thanks.
    I don't believe they ever said Garrosh would be the final boss of the expansion, only that players would raid Orgrimmar to bring him down and end his reign. They never said he was the last boss (if I'm wrong, please link me a source that says he's the last boss of the xpac), and it makes sense that he wouldn't be.

    My guess is that Garrosh is under the influence of the Sha and just flies off the handle, and after you bring him down and purge him of the Sha, you have to then either fight the Sha or the party responsible (old god?)
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Ever since first hearing that Garrosh will be the final boss of the expansion I've felt nothing but indifference, bordering on disappointment. I'm not excited by the prospect of it at all, and to be honest, it sounds like a very easy way for Blizzard to be lazy again. In my heart I sense another Dragonsoul, where we will be fighting some random horde related characters that no one really cares about, in what is essentially just Orgrimmar, like Dragonblight was reused for dragon soul.

    What are your thoughts on this?

    Thanks.
    As a Horde player...

    Ever since i heard thatw e are going to kill Garrosh in the last raid of MoP i'm expecting that moment with all my heart, very excited about it. It makes sense with the lore and its needed for the sake of the game that we kick Garrosh out of our Warchief's seat.

    Yes, the instance will probably take place in Orgrimmar, but i think calling Blizzard lazy with all the new and original zones they gave us in MoP is a little unfair.

  18. #78
    Brewmaster Zeverin's Avatar
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    I'm concern with the quality of future MoP patches.
    I remember a time, and you might as well, when Blizzard claimed there was not going to be a "big baddy", in MoP. The main focus would be Alliance vs. Horde, and the escalation of said conflict.

    I guess Blizzard have changed its mind: not only there is a big bad boss down the line (Garrosh), but the whole concept of war between the two factions seems to have been thrown out the window. Both factions are united, or at least have a common purpose; to chase down and kill Garrosh. The only place in Pandaria that I can recall a clear conflict was at the end of Jade Florest, between one Orc (General Nazgrim), a Human (Admiral Taylor), and plenty of Hozen and Jinyu, in the mix.

    The name of the patch "Siege of Orgrimmar" (SoG) (is it official?) seem to indicate it will be located in Orgrimmar. It doesn't make any sense otherwise.
    I feel that if Siege of Orgrimmar is released right now, as a 5.1 or 5.2 patch (a mid-expansion patch), it will kill a lot of the momentum both factions could have against each other, because we all know Garrosh is the instigator of the war. Not to mention SoG as a raid, will be very lackluster, specially for Horde players.

    On the other hand, it if is planned to be the final patch, that right away gives Garrosh and SoG more importance than the Sha and the Mogu, which are in fact the biggest threats we have faced in this expansion, so far.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Anjerith View Post
    but because if the ultimate goal of an expansion is to unseat a Tyrant in his capital city, he isn't going to build a giant floating city in the sky just so you can see how wealthy he is.
    Made me chuckle.

    I agree with that quote though. The fight is against Garrosh, that's pretty neat. I haven't had a raid in an MMO that was against a city leader.


    Where else would it take place in?

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeverin View Post
    I'm concern with the quality of future MoP patches.
    I remember a time, and you might as well, when Blizzard claimed there was not going to be a "big baddy", in MoP. The main focus would be Alliance vs. Horde, and the escalation of said conflict.

    I guess Blizzard have changed its mind: not only there is a big bad boss down the line (Garrosh), but the whole concept of war between the two factions seems to have been thrown out the window. Both factions are united, or at least have a common purpose; to chase down and kill Garrosh. The only place in Pandaria that I can recall a clear conflict was at the end of Jade Florest, between one Orc (General Nazgrim), a Human (Admiral Taylor), and plenty of Hozen and Jinyu, in the mix.

    The name of the patch "Siege of Orgrimmar" (SoG) (is it official?) seem to indicate it will be located in Orgrimmar. It doesn't make any sense otherwise.
    I feel that if Siege of Orgrimmar is released right now, as a 5.1 or 5.2 patch (a mid-expansion patch), it will kill a lot of the momentum both factions could have against each other, because we all know Garrosh is the instigator of the war. Not to mention SoG as a raid, will be very lackluster, specially for Horde players.

    On the other hand, it if is planned to be the final patch, that right away gives Garrosh and SoG more importance than the Sha and the Mogu, which are in fact the biggest threats we have faced in this expansion, so far.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see.
    Well up until 5.6 (I'm guessing that'll be when SoG is released.) the war between the Horde and Alliance will be escalating, and it'll only be at the end that the two factions join up. Also I'm fairly sure the Sha will be a major part of SoG, and perhaps the Mogu as well.

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