Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Will of the Emperor (25 heroic) Tactic, CC'ing most of the adds of all adds.

    Hey, so I just watched a stream where a 25 man guild would just CC all of the double - mob combos just by having 1 hunter throwing frost traps and 4/5 frost mages ccing them all fight long. Isn't it some sort of bug abuse/exploit or is it just gg easy 25 man FOR THIS FIGHT (people were raging)

    Because you certainly can't do that in 10 man.
    Last edited by Kaharon; 2012-10-29 at 08:09 PM.

  2. #2
    The Patient blackone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Interwebz
    Posts
    253
    You don't raid 25 man, don't pretend to know whether it's easy.

  3. #3
    Someone's trying too hard.

  4. #4
    please stay on topic

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaharon View Post
    Hey, so I just watched a stream where a 25 man guild would just CC all of the double - mob combos just by having 1 hunter throwing frost traps and 4/5 frost mages ccing them all fight long. Isn't it some sort of bug abuse/exploit or is it just gg easy 25 man FOR THIS FIGHT (people were raging)

    Because you certainly can't do that in 10 man.
    You have at the very least 5 dps spots in 10 man. Last I checked this strat required 1 hunter and 4 mages.
    Stop bitching.

  6. #6
    Wow guys, one boss in 10 man is easier LOL NOOB 10 LOL NOOBS L2P YOU PLAY EASY MODEEZZ. A boss (actually its 4 for this content) is easier in 25 man: LOL NOOB YOU DONT KNOW THAT BECUZ U PLAY 10 NOOB.

    Why can't just answer my question? Is this the normal strat?

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    709
    Am I misunderstanding, or is the point that 5 mobs are CCed the whole fight? A 10 man should basically always have at least 5 people with permanent CCs. I know ours does.
    | <Been There Downed That> - Exodar US - US 27th 16/16H |

    | PM Signature Requests: Closed | My Work | Signature Tutorial |

  8. #8
    It is not 5 mobs that are cc'd, its ALL emperors rage adds. They just stack them, like 50 of them or more in the end.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 09:26 PM ----------

    It is not about the permanent CC, it's just frost novas + pet frost novas. Easy boss kill this way, they don't have to kill any of those, so they get much more uptime on boss dps.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-29 at 09:32 PM ----------

    Just realized many 25 guilds killed it that way - can be closed.

  9. #9
    It is one of the strategies that 25man raids use yes. It is not the only one, this boss is still kill-able without doing it, my raid does not use it, however it was one of the strategies employed by top guilds to kill it on heroic (again, not the only strategy). Blizzard doesn't like it per se (hence the nerf to frost nova in the next patch), however it's one of those "unintended" strategies that is completely legitimate due to their development. They intended for the adds to be cc'd, not tanked, likely believing they would be snared/rooted/slowed/etc. and then aoe'd down (which is how my guild does it), however it's equally legitimate to do it that way. Remember, while it may seem easy, if the mage who's turn it is gets too close and gets gibbed by 25 mobs without getting his off, and all those rages break free, it's going to be a bitch to recover :P. It's kind of an "all or nothing" strategy.

  10. #10
    Main issue is that with the current level of gear, and the dps required to kill all the spawning rages, many guilds has to resort to this tactic.
    And don't for a SECOND think this is "easier" than the normal tactic of just killing everything and soaking - if you have the DPS/healing for it, it's far, far easier. As raidleader of a 25 man guild that just started the fight tonight, attempting this tactic, here's what you need:
    4 Mages.
    3 Dk's.
    That leaves you 10 DPS for the bosses+Strengths+courages (with 1 DPS dk and 2 tank dks on strengths, and mages on strengths).
    Basicly, what you're looking at, is your 10 DPS'ers pushing ~100K dps on the boss each, in order to make enrage.
    Meanwhile, your mages and DK's have to have PERFECT coordination, or adds will get lose, and inevitably smash the raid. It's still VERY difficult.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaharon View Post
    Hey, so I just watched a stream where a 25 man guild would just CC all of the double - mob combos just by having 1 hunter throwing frost traps and 4/5 frost mages ccing them all fight long. Isn't it some sort of bug abuse/exploit or is it just gg easy 25 man FOR THIS FIGHT (people were raging)

    Because you certainly can't do that in 10 man.
    Funny thing is that there is a slighly chance of the video you are talking about is from my guild lol

    It is a valid strat, kiting/CCing has been up for years. Do not assume it makes the boss a joke, the strat basically moves the weight of a core to another (in this case, less need to DPS but it needs more coordination).

    Watching videos always make it looks like "damn, this boss is so easy". Go try that yourself, a mistimed 0.5s off CC and you just throw an entire attempt away.

    I'd rather have killed it the way Paragon did (hell, they 30% of the raid dead for a GOOD chunk and the boss still died) than had to invest some time learning weird strats.

    Also, never compared 10/25 to the way both versions execute the same encounter, you never know which one ends being easier. It is like saying "lol 25men Gara'Jal is so easy, 4 healed and stuff, we need to 3heal it on 10men!!!" little people know that you had to 4 heal IN ORDER to beat the enrage, it wasn't healing being easy... it is the same deal with this Will strat -> moving weights from a core to another one who can handle it better.

    @To the guild saying 4 out of 6 bosses are harder in 10men.
    Not trying to make this a 10/25 fest but have you actually killed those boses? 10man (can't talk about Elegon only) fights are way undertuned*. Even Gara'Jal where people claim it is close-to-impossible in 10men is just... easier, indeed RNG players a bigger role than it does in the 25man counterpart, but for those attempts you get good RNG the boss looks like 9 manned.

    ****undertuned - people don't need as much gear/preparation for said bosses, I am not counting the fact that RNG is indeed a little havier but that should only be for Gara'Jal (maybe stone guards too, but that fight is a joke anyway).

    @post up
    This man speaks the truth.
    Last edited by HhitSappens; 2012-10-29 at 08:51 PM.

  12. #12
    The Emperor's Rages are susceptible to CC for a reason. Blizzard would've made them immune or otherwise prevented them being CCed for long periods of time if they didn't intend the encounter to be dealt with that way.

  13. #13
    Only 2 DKs are needed for grips, but it's incredibly easier with 3 in case something goes amiss.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Equalizer View Post
    Only 2 DKs are needed for grips, but it's incredibly easier with 3 in case something goes amiss.
    Which it inevitably will :s.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Which it inevitably will :s.
    I've killed it twice with only two dks doing grips.

    A third helps, but it's far from necessary.

  16. #16
    Just to add some color on the numbers for the coordinated RoF/grip strat to work, provided you cc all rages and the fight lasts 11min, you'll need 80+ Ring of Frosts (20 per mage) and 15 AoE grips (7-8 per dk) over the course of the fight. If any ring of frost or grip is mistimed or misplaced it is a wipe.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal tinatus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Abu Dhabi
    Posts
    75
    RoF has a target limit of 10 on the PTR, this strat was not expected and will be void.
    Words are wind.
    'tis me

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Old's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    85
    Learning curve for this strategy is much easier (a lot) than with killing adds and managing sparks. I honestly think (maybe because we usually used alternative strategies) that this is Blizzard fault letting those mobs being CCable. They shouldn't to some extent (diminishing return or smth). The same way Ragnaros adds shouldn't be allowed to be AOEed.

    But nonetheless, 10 man is a big joke on this fight, not even close.
    Last edited by Old; 2012-10-29 at 10:57 PM.

  19. #19
    The only hard part with this tactic is the massive input lag that appears at the end of the fight with all the adds up, the bosses abilities would bug out and he would just cleave wrong locations.
    "Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
    Juseeh
    T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28

  20. #20
    That may just be your computer struggling, I wasn't having any issues at the ten minute mark.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •