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  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I agree. The gear has no business having a reputation requirement at all. The valor cap is far more gating. A very simple solution would be to remove the reputation requirement entirely.
    Except that Blizzard doesn't want people just sitting in the cities all the time like we did in Cata. Yes, it is a giant control mechanism to get players to act the way that Blizzard wants them to. But every single video game ever made is nothing more than that if you break them down to basics. Every piece of gear requires an activity to get, and with any activity there are going to be some people who hate it. Their dislike of the activity should not mean that the rewards associated with it be available without participating in that activity. Nobody would argue that someone who refuses to raid be able to get the exact same gear that drop from raids. Nobody would expect dungeon drops be available to them without ever having run a dungeon. Yet dailies are different? Why? Because now there are rewards you want locked behind something you don't want to do. All that other stuff that is functionally the same is fine, but this is a problem.

    Its not as if they even require any sort of serious time commitment. Lets say you do the GL and Klaxxi dailies to start out. You alternate between the two factions each day, and take every third day off. If you completed the quests in The Dread Wastes to unlock all the Klaxxi dailies, then you are already honored with them. Revered will take, at most, 13 sets of dailies. While you are doing that, GL dailies start off at friendly because of the intro quests. Do the GL dailies that are available and you will reach honored after 5 sets at most. Then another hub opens up so you are getting more rep per set. Honored to Revered with GL takes 8 sets of dailies max. Total of 13 sets of dailies, approximately the same as the Klaxxi (Crazy its like Blizzard planned it that way or something). Doing this on the schedule I mentioned earlier, you have unlocked all the gear available from 2 of the 4 valor factions in a little more than a month of VERY casual work on the dailies. And in that time, assuming you valor cap every week, you have the potential to earn 6000 valor, which is less than the cost of available pieces on those 2 vendors. You could space it out even more and it would not matter. Because of the caps in place you will not be able to earn valor faster than you could unlock gear to purchase.

    Dailies are the required activity to access this gear. Just like raiding is the required activity to access raid-dropped gear, and dungeons are required to access dungeon dropped gear. WoW has worked this way since it launched. The only reason people complain now is because suddenly there is a reward that they want access to that requires them to do something they don't want to do.
    Last edited by Gurbz; 2012-11-01 at 08:52 PM.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
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  2. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    Except that Blizzard doesn't want people just sitting in the cities all the time like we did in Cata. Yes, it is a giant control mechanism to get players to act the way that Blizzard wants them to. .
    I'm glad you acknowledge it's a giant skinner box. Yes wow has always more or less been that but this change really removes the illusion that it was ever anything more. Of course people feel compelled to do it. Never the less my suggestion doesn't make dailies all that less rewarding. They still have charms, valor, gold, pets, mounts, tabards, and profession recipes behind them. People would still be heavily incentivized to do them. Telling people not to do dailies is telling them not to expect anyway to progress their character in a pve setting outside of a raid this expansion. At least for any reasonable length of time. That's mostly what this stems from. They want a method to gear their characters outside of the raid that isn't relatively to painful, isn't dailies, and isn't pvp. It's funny but I would much rather have hard dungeons than this crap.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No thanks. It didn't need fixing. I don't understand the reason that their is such resistance to this suggestion. It harms NO ONE as far as I can tell.
    Well It does kinda. As all it does is bring back the problem of no one wanting to go into the world as they can afk in s/w and get what they need from dungeons.


    Look if you did 1 factions a day you would still not be able to get valor fast enough to spend it.


    Is it really that hard to do about 5-10 quests a day?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 04:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I'm glad you acknowledge it's a giant skinner box. Yes wow has always more or less been that but this change really removes the illusion that it was ever anything more. Of course people feel compelled to do it. Never the less my suggestion doesn't make dailies all that less rewarding. They still have charms, valor, gold, pets, mounts, tabards, and profession recipes behind them. People would still be heavily incentivized to do them. Telling people not to do dailies is telling them not to expect anyway to progress their character in a pve setting outside of a raid this expansion. At least for any reasonable length of time. That's mostly what this stems from. They want a method to gear their characters outside of the raid that isn't relatively to painful, isn't dailies, and isn't pvp. It's funny but I would much rather have hard dungeons than this crap.
    If you don't raid what is the rush for that gear?

    Don't say because you earned it because you don't earn it until you do what is required to get the gear.

  4. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Well It does kinda. As all it does is bring back the problem of no one wanting to go into the world as they can afk in s/w and get what they need from dungeons.


    Look if you did 1 factions a day you would still not be able to get valor fast enough to spend it.


    Is it really that hard to do about 5-10 quests a day?
    Not really. Look even without the gear dailies still grant you charms, gold, mounts, pets, tabards, recipes, and valor. Still more rewarding than they've ever been. I don't share in Blizzards insistance that queing in sw/org is such a bad thing and even if I did Dailies are about the least creative way you could think to address that problem. People should want to get to out into the world not be prodded with the gear stick. However that isn't going to happen because what you are saying is the only reason anybody does anything is because they fell COMPELLED by the gear to do it. Well that's a much bigger problem for Blizzard than being people burnt out by dailies and is actually the root cause of it. World of Warcraft isn't Skyrim and they ought not to feel any compulsion to make it so. Hell even when I'm out in the world doing dailies I simply just fly to A or B kill the mobs and then return the quest. Avoid world pvp, don't pick up mats, don't stop and smell the roses. I simple want to get the process over with as soon as possible. I may as well be instanced at that point.

    If the rep grind is so easy and so casual then it really may as well not even exist. Personally for me I had my fill of questing from 85-90
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-11-01 at 09:00 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #1065
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    So what do we do with the professions that are not gated?
    Which profs aren't gated?

    If you say alchemy, I'll laugh at you.

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  6. #1066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Not really. Look even without the gear dailies still grant you charms, gold, mounts, pets, tabards, recipes, and valor. Still more rewarding than they've ever been. I don't share in Blizzards insistance that queing in sw/org is such a bad thing and even if I did Dailies are about the least creative way you could think to address that problem. People should want to get to out into the world not be prodded with the gear stick. However that isn't going to happen because what you are saying is the only reason anybody does anything is because they fell COMPELLED by the gear to do it. Well that's a much bigger problem for Blizzard than being people burnt out by dailies and is actually the root cause of it. World of Warcraft isn't Skyrim and they ought not to feel any compulsion to make it so. Hell even when I'm out in the world doing dailies I simply just fly to A or B kill the mobs and then return the quest. Avoid world pvp, don't pick up mats, don't stop and smell the roses. I simple want to get the process over with as soon as possible. I may as well be instanced at that point.

    If the rep grind is so easy and so casual then it really may as well not even exist. Personally for me I had my fill of questing from 85-90

    Ok so answer me one question. What would you do to get people out in the world?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 05:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Which profs aren't gated?

    If you say alchemy, I'll laugh at you.

    Inscription?

  7. #1067
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    Inscription?
    Aren't they gated through daily cooldowns on scrolls and the random element of card creation?

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  8. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Ok so answer me one question. What would you do to get people out in the world?[COLOR="red"]
    Well you could add the Rift system to the game. Pandaria is actually a perfect avenue for that. The panda at the start literally tells you this land reacts to your negative vodoo stop being so douchy horde and alliance. Or something to that effect. Well that's a perfect lore avenue for random shit to happen. I think your less likely to have people complain about something like that then dailies. Even if you wanted to go the dailies route AT LEAST put some fucking thought into it. Make the quests more varied. As it is now they have no variation from the 85-90 questing experience. It's the same kill 10 collect 10 bullshit. At least spice it up a little bit.

    Failing that I don't know Blizzard innovate something for once? Christ what am I thinking... I honestly don't mean to be negative but the dailies are just so fail. Even if you like doing them aren't they a tad stale by now? I'm not even talking about for repetitions sake. Aren't the mechanics really worn out? Like the best quest I did in pandaria was that orc chick who sniped the monkeys. It was different and changed it up. Why can't dailies have shit like that? Even just one or two.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-11-01 at 09:11 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Well you could add the Rift system to the game. Pandaria is actually a perfect avenue for that. The panda at the start literally tells you this land reacts to your negative vodoo stop being so douchy horde and alliance. Or something to that effect. Well that's a perfect lore avenue for random shit to happen. I think your less likely to have people complain about something like that then dailies. Even if you wanted to go the dailies route AT LEAST put some fucking thought into it. Make the quests more varied. As it is now they have no variation from the 85-90 questing experience. It's the same kill 10 collect 10 bullshit. At least spice it up a little bit.

    Failing that I don't know Blizzard innovate something for once? Christ what am I thinking...
    Are you talking about instant adventures? the opnly reason people do them in rift is because they award a currency you can use to get raid gear.

    Aside from that there is no other reason to go in the world for rift.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 05:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Aren't they gated through daily cooldowns on scrolls and the random element of card creation?

    If you are talking about mat all professions are gated. I thought you were talking about things being behind rep for crafting.

  10. #1070
    I agree with DanTheMan.
    I too would like to see the faction tabards return to the game as I personally don't enjoy daily quests but still want to reap the benefits of being exalted with the new factions.
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  11. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Are you talking about instant adventures? the opnly reason people do them in rift is because they award a currency you can use to get raid gear.

    Aside from that there is no other reason to go in the world for rift.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 05:11 PM ----------




    If you are talking about mat all professions are gated. I thought you were talking about things being behind rep for crafting.
    I played it for a limited amount but when I was on my trial all sorts of shit would spawn up in the world and it would alert you on the map. Either a rift event or sometimes NPCS would be fighting. In any event if they grant currency for raiding that's fine. I'm not asking that dailies have valor removed from them. Only that the reputation requirement for the valor gear be gone. Dailies can still award all the other good stuff they do and will still be rewarding as hell. I would still be heavily rewarded for doing them but the pressure that is felt to do them would be far less and most of this complaining would stop and as far as I can tell it would harm no one.

    The only true way to get people out into a world is to do something like Skyrim. Where exploration and immersion occur at high levels and the entire sand box experience is there. WoW probably isn't gonna do that at any point ever but by the same token simply throwing some rewards on daily quests which are literally just extensions of the 85-90 lvling process and not varied from that at all is extremely lazy. Mists had alot of inspired work that went into it. The panda models themselves are amazing. I look forward to the redesign on the other models if they are that high quality as well. I'm just shocked and dismayed they put so little thought into this whole daily quest system at the end game.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I played it for a limited amount but when I was on my trial all sorts of shit would spawn up in the world and it would alert you on the map. Either a rift event or sometimes NPCS would be fighting. In any event if they grant currency for raiding that's fine. I'm not asking that dailies have valor removed from them. Only that the reputation requirement for the valor gear be gone. Dailies can still award all the other good stuff they do and will still be rewarding as hell. I would still be heavily rewarded for doing them but the pressure that is felt to do them would be far less and most of this complaining would stop and as far as I can tell it would harm no one.
    Sure rifts spawn all over. But they are more annoying than anything. While leveling they can really mess things up.


    I made it to level 50 in rift. When you hit cap it's the same as WoW was. Sit in town and que for dungeons for gear.

    Part of the reason I'm still playing wow and not rift.

    The only true way to get people out into a world is to do something like Skyrim. Where exploration and immersion occur at high levels and the entire sand box experience is there. WoW probably isn't gonna do that at any point ever but by the same token simply throwing some rewards on daily quests which are literally just extensions of the 85-90 lvling process and not varied from that at all is extremely lazy.
    You may think it is lazy. But I think it is working. I see people almost everywhere I go.

  13. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Sure rifts spawn all over. But they are more annoying than anything. While leveling they can really mess things up.


    I made it to level 50 in rift. When you hit cap it's the same as WoW was. Sit in town and que for dungeons for gear.

    Part of the reason I'm still playing wow and not rift.
    I didn't hit 50 but the time I did play in the game it seemed like a pretty neat system. Maybe I'll give Rift a proper shot now. It's got an expansion coming. Looked pretty sweet.

    In any event that's fine I'm not calling for dailies to have all their reward removed just the rep requirement from gear. Blizzard has gone halfway there already. They just need to take that extra little step. Dailies are still extremely lazy on their part and especially these dailies which aren't varied from the regular questing experience at all but I could deal with them if the gear wasn't behind them. Removing the rep requirement harms no one and you will still be heavily rewarded for doing them, more than you've ever been in the history of wow.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #1074
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Well you could add the Rift system to the game. Pandaria is actually a perfect avenue for that. The panda at the start literally tells you this land reacts to your negative vodoo stop being so douchy horde and alliance. Or something to that effect. Well that's a perfect lore avenue for random shit to happen. I think your less likely to have people complain about something like that then dailies. Even if you wanted to go the dailies route AT LEAST put some fucking thought into it. Make the quests more varied. As it is now they have no variation from the 85-90 questing experience. It's the same kill 10 collect 10 bullshit. At least spice it up a little bit.

    Failing that I don't know Blizzard innovate something for once? Christ what am I thinking... I honestly don't mean to be negative but the dailies are just so fail. Even if you like doing them aren't they a tad stale by now? I'm not even talking about for repetitions sake. Aren't the mechanics really worn out? Like the best quest I did in pandaria was that orc chick who sniped the monkeys. It was different and changed it up. Why can't dailies have shit like that? Even just one or two.
    More variety would certainly be nice. But even really cool gimmicks become boring or annoying if overused (See: Vehicles in Wrath). And while Rift does have "random" events, the last time I checked it out the only thing that was random was the location. All of these events were more or less "Kill X of these guys, then X of these other guys, then kill this one really tough guy". And they happen with too great a frequency to stay interesting. Hardly groundbreaking aside from the random spawning.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
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  15. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I didn't hit 50 but the time I did play in the game it seemed like a pretty neat system. Maybe I'll give Rift a proper shot now. It's got an expansion coming. Looked pretty sweet.

    In any event that's fine I'm not calling for dailies to have all their reward removed just the rep requirement from gear. Blizzard has gone halfway there already. They just need to take that extra little step. Dailies are still extremely lazy on their part and especially these dailies which aren't varied from the regular questing experience at all but I could deal with them if the gear wasn't behind them. Removing the rep requirement harms no one and you will still be heavily rewarded for doing them, more than you've ever been in the history of wow.

    I would recommend rift for you. From the sounds of it you would like it. It is a good game really just not for me.


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  16. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    More variety would certainly be nice. But even really cool gimmicks become boring or annoying if overused (See: Vehicles in Wrath). And while Rift does have "random" events, the last time I checked it out the only thing that was random was the location. All of these events were more or less "Kill X of these guys, then X of these other guys, then kill this one really tough guy". And they happen with too great a frequency to stay interesting. Hardly groundbreaking aside from the random spawning.
    As opposed to now where they simply get boring at the start? I'm not calling for each of them to be some super special snow flake quest. NONE of them are though. Not a single one. What this suggests to me is that Blizzard knows this is a process that people more or less just want to be done with and didn't put any thought into it at all. They know people don't like dailies and will only do them because they are compelled by the reward. In a very real sense players feel forced and it's by design.

    While you may not think the Rift system is hardly ground breaking, daily quests are not even REMOTELY ground breaking. Especially these.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-11-01 at 09:29 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    More variety would certainly be nice. But even really cool gimmicks become boring or annoying if overused (See: Vehicles in Wrath). And while Rift does have "random" events, the last time I checked it out the only thing that was random was the location. All of these events were more or less "Kill X of these guys, then X of these other guys, then kill this one really tough guy". And they happen with too great a frequency to stay interesting. Hardly groundbreaking aside from the random spawning.

    I wouldn't call them random. Only random thing about them is when and where. Other than that they are all pretty much the same.

  18. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by Xadion View Post
    I agree with DanTheMan.
    I too would like to see the faction tabards return to the game as I personally don't enjoy daily quests but still want to reap the benefits of being exalted with the new factions.
    Tabards are a dumb idea and people have said why over and over in this thread, in short terms it will keep people sitting in hubs and it wouldn't make sense lore wise.

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  19. #1079
    Dailies are fine and I liked them as a way of generating extra income and working your way up to obtaining things like pets and mounts, as well as several well implemented and interesting quests (Oracle / Wolvar quests) but FOR EVERY SINGLE DAMN THING is a bit much and too far a step back into the grindfest of vanilla. The tabard system could have been changed or tweaked to allow players to at least work up to a certain threshold to get at least some gear they needed to progress in raiding or keep up with their guildies, leaving the pet and mount hunters to keep working away until they get what they were after.

    The current way it is for a lot of people I sense right now is that, like me, we've all gotten a bit older. We've got jobs, social lives and other things to be doing and WoW is not our only thing in our recreational timeslots. When we log in, we want to be doing something fairly substantial and more engrossing than quests that involve an hour and a bit as a healer or something killing dozens of the same generic mob.
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  20. #1080
    I hate dailies. I'm not going to do them. But I would still like the gear from the rep vendors. (Obviously.) I'm not sure if it has been suggested yet, but how about we go back to TBC style of rep gain?

    You get rep with certain factions by either doing dailies or doing an instance that is specific for that faction. I.E. Shadow-pan Monestary will give Shadow-Pan rep. If you feel the rep gain will still be too fast, make it so you can only gain the instance rep once per day and not via random LFD. Only if you queue for that dungeon specifically.
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