Feral and Fears...

**darkwing1232** · 2012-10-30, 11:23 AM

Now that classes that have fears don't even need to cast their spells anymore in that all fears are now instant, I think that it is only fair to give Ferals back its Fear immunity attached to Berserk. I don't believe that a 15 sec immunity on a 3min cd is too much to ask since Ferals are the ONLY melee class without some form of Fear mitigation. Warriors, Priests, Locks, and even Hunters (Im sure there are more) all have fears that work on druids.

**Sähäri** · 2012-10-30, 12:21 PM

I guess not everyone needs to have fear immunity. My monk dosent have one at least. If im correct rogues dosent have one either? Tho they are a little harder to fear.
I think the problem atm is that it feels that fear breaks when you get to like 50%

**Xetes** · 2012-10-30, 05:12 PM

Bump. Signed. Whatever. Darkwing is spot on. And call me crazy, but fears don't seem to break as quickly now either.

**Snuggli** · 2012-10-30, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Sähäri

If im correct rogues dosent have one either? Tho they are a little harder to fear.

Cloak provides an immunity to fear, and yes, they have a lot more utilities to stop casts. Also, Druids have the extra fear from Hunters to watch out for too.

Originally Posted by Xetes

Bump. Signed. Whatever. Darkwing is spot on. And call me crazy, but fears don't seem to break as quickly now either.

As far as I know, the damage it takes to break was increased from 10% to 30% or something with MoP. Can't remember exactly.

I agree though. Feral burst is pretty much built around Berserk, most other melee classes have some way of being immune or avoiding CC while bursting, or having the choice to use a spell offensively or defensively. (Ret bubble, Avatar, enh wolves, cloak of shadows, deterrence, iceblock, etc). I didn't agree with them removing fear immunity originally, and I think it'd be a welcome change if it came back.

**Bjarne** · 2012-10-30, 05:29 PM

Cloak is only 5 secs every 2 min

But the amount of fears flying around can be a bit retarded

**Arcanimus** · 2012-10-30, 05:35 PM

I would be fine with Ferals getting fear break on berserk/immunity on one of three conditions:
It being an enrage
-OR-
Losing the snare removal on shifting/unshifting, and/or losing Infected Wounds snare.
-OR-
losing the short-distance charge on Skull Bash

I don't think most druids would be willing to make any of those trades, especially the second.
Simply put, its a non-issue, since you are pretty much immune to the main control for melee (snares), and to polymorph. There has to be a tradeoff somewhere, and you'll only complain if its coming out of your damage output.

**Snuggli** · 2012-10-30, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bjarne

But the amount of fears flying around can be a bit retarded

Agreed, if anything i'd rather a nerf to fears than a buff to berserk. Howl of Terror and Psychic scream were already over-forgiving.. adding blood fear, psyfiend and resto druid fear (from warr symbio) was just overkill.

**peggleftw** · 2012-10-30, 05:40 PM

please this! i try to avoid fighting shadow priests and warlocks now as i spend most of the fight feared. rather give us a fear immunity, or lower the damage threshold of fear. being taken to 50% health within a fear is not OK! especially since you just get feared right away again anyway. warriors fear isnt so bad, that one seems to break pretty quickly once you take damage, its the warlock and priest ones that seem to last too long. if you trinket the fear, you just get feared instantly again.

i think nerfing fear is a better option that buffing beserk though really. if i was immune to fear for 15seconds i could probably kill most warlocks within that time. but fear needs to be breaking sooner, its ridiculous at the moment.

**Infinitus** · 2012-10-30, 05:53 PM

Only bad ferals ask to be OP again and it's quite a giveaway that they try to argue for it too. What has happened to this game lately when people can't PvP anymore without asking for I win buttons? Watch some older PvP clips on you tube and maybe you will learn something because back in those days ferals didn't have a fraction of what you have today and they still did well, at least those with skills did. World of Whining indeed.

**fizzbob** · 2012-10-30, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Infinitus

Only bad ferals ask to be OP again and it's quite a giveaway that they try to argue for it too. What has happened to this game lately when people can't PvP anymore without asking for I win buttons? Watch some older PvP clips on you tube and maybe you will learn something because back in those days ferals didn't have a fraction of what you have today and they still did well, at least those with skills did. World of Whining indeed.

back then there were less fears, stuns, horrors, incapacitates

game today is nothing like "back in those days", it was rock/paper/scissor then and it's more rock/paper/paper these days. if you're rock, you're fucked

wotlk is when you started seeing elite players giving up on anything that wasn't an FOTM spec. it's an uphill battle you won't win.

**Avada Kedavra** · 2012-10-30, 05:59 PM

Rant INC!

Getting rid of the fear immunity during berserk was the fairest balance change Blizz has done. How else can we get a feral off of us if we are 1) Slowed because of infected wounds, 2)snare immunity because of shape shift, 3) you can close the gap in an instant if we do manage to get away. Now you want to be un-CC-able while Berserking, HA. sounds like you are QQ'ing. Why not just ask blizz for a permanent paly bubble? All casters would be completely screwed if they brought that change back. Priests - screwed (cant fear), Mages screwed (cant CC due to shape shift) Locks screwed (fear again) Shamans (screwed just because they rolled a shammy). Not to mention, feral's already can heal themselves for a ridiculous amount, if you can almost kill them, they run away and have so many speed buffs its crazy stupid. No Buff For You. Feral's are OP as it is.

**Infinitus** · 2012-10-30, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by fizzbob

back then there were less fears, stuns, horrors, incapacitates

game today is nothing like "back in those days", it was rock/paper/scissor then and it's more rock/paper/paper these days. if you're rock, you're fucked

wotlk is when you started seeing elite players giving up on anything that wasn't an FOTM spec. it's an uphill battle you won't win.

The point is that ferals also had a lot less abilities then and good players still made ferals work back then wihtout I win buttons. I guess cata/MoP babies happened.

---------- Post added 2012-10-30 at 07:03 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra

Rant INC!

Getting rid of the fear immunity during berserk was the fairest balance change Blizz has done. How else can we get a feral off if we are 1) Slowed because of infected wounds, 2)snare immunity because of shape shift, 3) you can close the gap in an instant if we do manage to get away. Now you want to be un-CC-able while Berserking, HA. sounds like you are QQ'ing. Why not just ask blizz for a permanent paly bubble? All casters would be completely screwed if they brought that change back. Priests - screwed (cant fear), Mages screwed (cant CC due to shape shift) Locks screwed (fear again) Shamans (screwed just because they rolled a shammy). Not to mention, feral's already can heal themselves for a ridiculous amount, if you can almost kill them, they run away and have so many speed buffs its crazy stupid. No Buff For You.

Indeed. Anyone with half a brain should see the ridiculous OP-factor here but I guess people got so spoiled spamming mangle during berserk that they forgot how to play feral properly. Something that is true for some other classes as well.

**MrHappy** · 2012-10-30, 06:05 PM

would you trade being able to constantly break from snares for fear mitigation?

**Aherooffools** · 2012-10-30, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Arcanimus

I would be fine with Ferals getting fear break on berserk/immunity on one of three conditions:
It being an enrage
-OR-
Losing the snare removal on shifting/unshifting, and/or losing Infected Wounds snare.
-OR-
losing the short-distance charge on Skull Bash

I don't think most druids would be willing to make any of those trades, especially the second.
Simply put, its a non-issue, since you are pretty much immune to the main control for melee (snares), and to polymorph. There has to be a tradeoff somewhere, and you'll only complain if its coming out of your damage output.

Playing feral for a few years, I would be happy to agree to losing my short charge on skull bash, and even taking a half nerf on infected wounds if it meant I had a fear break with berserk again. It would make using berserk more costly to use as well instead of just going guns blazing-pop-all-I-have bursting. Whenever I play my hunter, I always am careful about when I'm going to pop my beastial wrath because it does break a cc. Even if it means I may have to wait on my burst.

**Kaj392** · 2012-10-30, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra

Rant INC!

Getting rid of the fear immunity during berserk was the fairest balance change Blizz has done. How else can we get a feral off of us if we are 1) Slowed because of infected wounds, 2)snare immunity because of shape shift, 3) you can close the gap in an instant if we do manage to get away. Now you want to be un-CC-able while Berserking, HA. sounds like you are QQ'ing. Why not just ask blizz for a permanent paly bubble? All casters would be completely screwed if they brought that change back. Priests - screwed (cant fear), Mages screwed (cant CC due to shape shift) Locks screwed (fear again) Shamans (screwed just because they rolled a shammy). Not to mention, feral's already can heal themselves for a ridiculous amount, if you can almost kill them, they run away and have so many speed buffs its crazy stupid. No Buff For You. Feral's are OP as it is.

Berserk gave Fear immunity before, so all people want is it to be rechanged.
1) Some people can counter this too (Pala, hunter)
2) Just reapply the snare, and make us shape shift the whole time; oh look, we can't dmg you then
3) Charge? Like oh so little classes have a gap closener, right? Charge/movement speed increase/blink, you name it.

Self heal; Yeah right...Like no other class can self heal for a shitload!
2 Speed buffs, roar 8s 2m cd and dash 15s 3m cd. So seriously, you sound like the one QQing

It would be 15s, that isn't so much on a 3m cd... Most fear cd's are shorter then that, so what are you so afraid off?

**oplawlz** · 2012-10-30, 06:12 PM

Wow, really? You're already completely immune to poly and get free unlimited snare removal and you're complaining about fear? You are SUPPOSED to be cced from time to time in pvp, just like every other class in the game.

**Snuggli** · 2012-10-30, 06:28 PM

I think what everybody is forgetting is that they ONLY removed Fear Immunity from Berserk because they shifted the damage from bleed damage to ability damage around 4.0.6. Way back before Cata, Feral physical damage was sub-par and the majority of their damage either came from bleeds or from Ferocious Bite.

When Cata hit, bleeds were hitting too hard so they shifted the damage from bleeds to mangle/shred, then what they found was their burst during berserk was suddenly too OP because shred and mangle were hitting twice as much. They took away powershifting and took away fear immunity and left Ferals like shitty warriors. (4.0.6-4.1). A few tweaks here and there and Ferals became viable again but that is besides the point.

The point is that having a Feral sit on you for 30s will not be anywhere NEAR as devastating as having a warrior or death knight sit on you uncontrolled for 30s. That's the reason Ferals -used- to have immunities, they are a completely different class to other melees and you guys comparing them is just dumb.

You can't apply the "Must lose X to gain Y" attitude to Ferals, comparing them to Warriors/Dks/Rets is like comparing Affli Locks to Arcane mages.

**Avada Kedavra** · 2012-10-30, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kaj392

Berserk gave Fear immunity before, so all people want is it to be rechanged.
1) Some people can counter this too (Pala, hunter)
2) Just reapply the snare, and make us shape shift the whole time; oh look, we can't dmg you then
3) Charge? Like oh so little classes have a gap closener, right? Charge/movement speed increase/blink, you name it.

Self heal; Yeah right...Like no other class can self heal for a shitload!
2 Speed buffs, roar 8s 2m cd and dash 15s 3m cd. So seriously, you sound like the one QQing

It would be 15s, that isn't so much on a 3m cd... Most fear cd's are shorter then that, so what are you so afraid off?

Im not afraid of anything.....because i can keep them feared

You want complete immunity - not gonna happen.

Tell me if im wrong, but you want to be immune to:

Fear
any Snare (including roots, all mage freezes , poly, void tendrils, and anything else you can shape shit out of)

so the only CC that will affect you is HoJ? maybe a stun (but im pretty sure you have some immunity to that too)

You dont see a problem with this? this thread should be titled "Give Feral Permanent Divine Protection" I think that will solve your issues.

**Palatinus** · 2012-10-30, 07:28 PM

I would say its better to nerf (the amount of) fears and not buff cooldowns to counter them. Isn't that how pvp got into this messy state anyway?

Same as snares/gap closers. X needs a snare, so we need to give Y another gap opener to escape X, now X cant get to Y so need to give them a gap closer blah blah blah blah.

Needs to stop.

**Phoenexis** · 2012-10-30, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by iWolfBanei

Agreed, if anything i'd rather a nerf to fears than a buff to berserk. Howl of Terror and Psychic scream were already over-forgiving.. adding blood fear, psyfiend and resto druid fear (from warr symbio) was just overkill.

I'm a warlock and I'd much rather see a nerf to retarded abilities such as Psyfiend and Blood Fear. Fear is a powerful CC in itself, making it instant and uncounterable is just plain retarded, and sort of annoys me when I'm landing it so easily. The amount of CC is out of control at the moment, I think that's the major problem.

If ferals were to ever get back their fear immunity, then I'd want to see skull bash gone.

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