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  1. #1

    I have less than a day to master survival...

    I was brought into my first 25 man raid with my new guild (Chinese) and they wanted me survival. Having never touched the spec, I managed between 80k to 100k on Stone Guard (474 ilevel) (they stacked tiles very slowly, and save hero for later). Each attempt lasted less than 3 minuets.

    For those survivalists, do you delay your cooldowns until you break 100 tiles? Do you bother multi Srs on Heroic Stone Guard?
    I'm also confused as some guides say haste haste and more haste, while others say crit -> mastery -> haste (possibly badly updated cata guides). My gut is saying crit -> haste -> mastery

    I need to be able to break 110k consistently on this.


    I've been doing ES/LnL -> BA -> SS -> GL -> AS -> CS
    Last edited by iggie; 2012-10-30 at 07:48 PM.

  2. #2
    We just have everyone run tiles as soon as the pillar-things come up and then we're done.
    Last edited by bellatrex; 2012-11-28 at 04:34 PM.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellatrex View Post
    why on earth do they want you to be SV for h-Stone Guard? There's 2 hunters in my 25 man guild and we both stayed BM for that except for a few attempts where hunters were the sole tile runners (that strat didn't last long). We just have everyone run tiles as soon as the pillar-things come up and then we're done.

    Also - the other hunter in my guild is the guy that writes the EJ survival thread - whatever that thread says is what you should do. I've never raided with a hunter that knew his stuff better than Esoth (just don't tell him I said that).
    Survival is better because it has some cleave. Explo trap for double LnL proc chance and use Multi-shot(TotH proc) every ~14 seconds for dotting up both dogs. It's already a DPS increase to refresh SrS with Multi-shot(TotH proc) on single target, even better for 2 targets.

    Checking WoL(Heroic 25):
    Highest BM parse: 112.7k
    Highest SV parse: 160.7k

    Kind of obvious which spec is better

    OT: Crit > Haste > Mastery is the correct stat prio for MoP, Mastery's value went down since our pet's now do a lot more damage(Reason why haste is higher) compared to Cata along with the addition of 2 new abilities to our rotation which means less Elemental shots.
    Last edited by Tehterokkar; 2012-10-30 at 07:28 PM.

  4. #4
    Is the explosive trap on 2 targets really worth it? I noticed on vodka's latest parse their hunters don't even bother. And thanks for the replies. Looking at WoL survival just sims so much higher.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    Is the explosive trap on 2 targets really worth it? I noticed on vodka's latest parse their hunters don't even bother. And thanks for the replies. Looking at WoL survival just sims so much higher.
    Well it seems logical, sometimes you won't get 2 LnL from 1 BA, but you almost always will from Explo trap since it basically has double the chance. And 2 ES+Explo > BA in damage I would assume

  6. #6
    I'm no survival master, but playing this fight on normal I have been using explosive trap and tossing multi-shot into my rotation every 15 seconds or so and it seems to be the best way to do it that I've tried.
    Although when I open, I've been using readiness to double black arrow/double MOC the two adds we pull first... not sure if that's the best idea, but it works for me. I beat my extremely tough fire mage and boomkin competition last week in DPS, so I did something right.

  7. #7
    Your duty on Stone Guard heroic as a hunter should be Lighting Tiles all the time (except when you get chains). If you are not on tiles duty then it means something is wrong. I don't really see any point of doing a lot of damage on that fight when it's better to kill the boss faster instead of ranking on WoL / test your DPS.
    I mean, sure you can try to do your best on that boss DPS wise but aiming for numbers is not the best idea.
    On the other hand, Gara'jal Heroic is a perfect boss for testing your DPS if you stay in the normal realm the whole fight.
    Last edited by Ruffles; 2012-10-30 at 11:14 PM.
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  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Neteyes's Avatar
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    You want to maximise DPS on stone guards just keep explosive trap up and replace arcane shot with multi-shot pretty much.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffles View Post
    Your duty on Stone Guard heroic as a hunter should be Lighting Tiles all the time (except when you get chains). If you are not on tiles duty then it means something is wrong. I don't really see any point of doing a lot of damage on that fight when it's better to kill the boss faster instead of ranking on WoL / test your DPS.
    I mean, sure you can try to do your best on that boss DPS wise but aiming for numbers is not the best idea.
    On the other hand, Gara'jal Heroic is a perfect boss for testing your DPS if you stay in the normal realm the whole fight.
    If every dps in the raid lights tiles, you are done lighting tiles in around 15-20s, which means that your healers get the spirit buff that much faster. You can at that point ignore the tiles again until they power down.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Survival is better because it has some cleave. Explo trap for double LnL proc chance and use Multi-shot(TotH proc) every ~14 seconds for dotting up both dogs.
    Why would you use ToTH when DB are the superior talent (unless it's an aoe heavy fight, which stone guards ain't)?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Survival is better because it has some cleave. Explo trap for double LnL proc chance and use Multi-shot(TotH proc) every ~14 seconds for dotting up both dogs. It's already a DPS increase to refresh SrS with Multi-shot(TotH proc) on single target, even better for 2 targets.

    Checking WoL(Heroic 25):
    Highest BM parse: 112.7k
    Highest SV parse: 160.7k

    Kind of obvious which spec is better

    OT: Crit > Haste > Mastery is the correct stat prio for MoP, Mastery's value went down since our pet's now do a lot more damage(Reason why haste is higher) compared to Cata along with the addition of 2 new abilities to our rotation which means less Elemental shots.
    no hunter spec has a cleave.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    no hunter spec has a cleave.
    It's not technically a cleave, but the Serpent Spread / Imp SrS is treated as a minor cleave at times like this since there are 2 targets being attacked at once.

    Also, Beast Cleave says "Hi." That is a literal cleave ability.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bellatrex View Post
    why on earth do they want you to be SV for h-Stone Guard? There's 2 hunters in my 25 man guild and we both stayed BM for that except for a few attempts where hunters were the sole tile runners (that strat didn't last long). We just have everyone run tiles as soon as the pillar-things come up and then we're done.
    You would better be survival for Stone Guards HM for a simple reason that tiles don't buff pets. So even if you move alot on this fight you still do more dps as surv.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    Why would you use ToTH when DB are the superior talent (unless it's an aoe heavy fight, which stone guards ain't)?
    Dire Beast isn't as good as it sims for Survival. Any movement can cause it to lose attacks, which severely hurts it's damage/focus gain.

    Plus TotH gives you a cleave for Stone Guard, which is pretty much the sole reason you're going Survival for that fight. I personally run with TotH on almost all bosses as Survival.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bellatrex View Post
    Also - the other hunter in my guild is the guy that writes the EJ survival thread - whatever that thread says is what you should do. I've never raided with a hunter that knew his stuff better than Esoth (just don't tell him I said that).
    I wish it said more. I'm pretty disappointed with EJ this expac. The Surv thread is bare-bones and says 'this can be better than that' but doesn't explain when and the BM thread is simply unfinished.

    I don't even bother going there anymore because I get nothing out of it.

  16. #16
    I ended up doing 98k on our kill, not dead last but not amazing either. With a 474 ilevel, I kind of expected more out of myself I guess.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Survival is better because it has some cleave. Explo trap for double LnL proc chance and use Multi-shot(TotH proc) every ~14 seconds for dotting up both dogs. It's already a DPS increase to refresh SrS with Multi-shot(TotH proc) on single target, even better for 2 targets.
    .
    point taken!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Survival is better because it has some cleave. Explo trap for double LnL proc chance and use Multi-shot(TotH proc) every ~14 seconds for dotting up both dogs. It's already a DPS increase to refresh SrS with Multi-shot(TotH proc) on single target, even better for 2 targets.
    From my experience I agree on the Surv "cleave" part, I'm not sure about the part with SrS refresh with multi(with TotH) on single target.
    the direct comparison of SrS at 25 focus vs Multi at 20 focus is obviously in favor of multi, but you must also consider the TotH stack consumed.

    the same time/same focus comparison would be something more like SrS + Arcane vs Multi + 1sec of Cobra dmg, because the guy using SrS still has the stack to use on an Arcane, while the other guy cant.
    (guy 2 now has a little focus plus over guy 1 from the 1sec of Cobra shot, which he could then spend on a part of an arcane... gets to complicated)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bellatrex View Post
    point taken!
    I did 127k on our kill, with a semi-low ilvl compared to most others at like 485+ and ranked 22nd prior to them making the logs accurate, then it went to 60th when reset happened (I raid weekends :P) and now I'm at like 80 something. Did about 45-46m damage. Survival is the definite winner for Heroic SG. :P Not "bragging" or anything silly, just letting you know!
    Last edited by Hayro1; 2012-10-31 at 08:28 PM.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    From my experience I agree on the Surv "cleave" part, I'm not sure about the part with SrS refresh with multi(with TotH) on single target.
    the direct comparison of SrS at 25 focus vs Multi at 20 focus is obviously in favor of multi, but you must also consider the TotH stack consumed.

    the same time/same focus comparison would be something more like SrS + Arcane vs Multi + 1sec of Cobra dmg, because the guy using SrS still has the stack to use on an Arcane, while the other guy cant.
    (guy 2 now has a little focus plus over guy 1 from the 1sec of Cobra shot, which he could then spend on a part of an arcane... gets to complicated)
    Yes but during a TotH proc: Multi-shot is 20 focus and SrS is still 25 focus. Multi-shot + SrS Instant damage + SrS full dot >>>>> 1 AS

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