Why doesn't corruption update correctly...

[Greel]

I'm seeing the same thing as well. I didn't record the numbers, but Corruption refreshed by Corruption when my trinket procced was less than when refreshed by Fel Flame.

Agony and UA didn't seem to be affected and their damage with the trinket was the same when refreshed by their spell and by Fel Flame.

[Ridcully]

Confirming. Now we need to check is it refreshing giving less or fel flame giving more.
How do we get total damage from corruption formula?
"Corrupts the target, causing 1926 (+ 20% of SpellPower) Shadow damage over 18 sec."
I tried giving 20% to each tick and adding mastery, but numbers do not match even though they are pretty close.

---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 11:51 AM ----------

Damage formula from wowhead is approximation (+/- 0,5% or so), it does not give exact spell damage. Can't find anything better.
It's refreshing giving less.
Freshly cast dot under intellect proc effect gives full benefit of proc.
Recasting on target that has 2 seconds of corruption left will lose less damage than target that has 16 seconds left. So it depends on remaining dot duration or number of ticks. However you always lose some damage.

[xskarma]

Sooooo, have we gotten any further with this? Enough for one of our american friends to post it on official warlock forums and hopefully get it really looked at? Not so sure with Xelnath gone that every single topic gets read or put through to relevant people.

[Ridcully]

I can try to do more testing tomorrow, but so far it seems that bonus damage that each tick should gain, is in some way divided by number of ticks left on target before corruption is reapplied. Ticks over base duration do not make bonus damage larger, so Pandemic issue I guess.

[Medieve]

I'd put it under the Bug Report forum. There's not much we can do about Agony, but weaving FF's in for Corr and UA shouldn't be that much of an issue. I don't like how counter-intuitive it is in regards to Blizzard's stance that FF is for movement refreshes, but I don't see it being a problem to weave in if they don't see it as an issue. I think a lot of us already throw a FF after we get our DoT's up so our DoT's line up with haunts a bit better anyway, so in practice I don't think we were seeing a lot of damage loss from this. Has anyone tested for Demo and Destro's Immo?

[lockedout]

All dots should update dynamically. IE you have dots rolling a proc happens next tick of all dots is empowered by proc. They dumbed everything else down in the game why not this.

[ati87]

All dots should update dynamically. IE you have dots rolling a proc happens next tick of all dots is empowered by proc. They dumbed everything else down in the game why not this.

I would hardly call it dumbing down since it was a stupid way to play.

The game-play where you had to create a powerful dot doesn't work in most fights, only patchwerk fights allow you with a 100% certainty to refresh your dot.

[Jessicka]

All dots should update dynamically. IE you have dots rolling a proc happens next tick of all dots is empowered by proc. They dumbed everything else down in the game why not this.

Because this would break PvP by popping cooldowns/trinkets after a set up, meaning there's absolutely zero risk attached to using them.

[cabana]

Has anyone put this under Bug Report yet, I'd really like to see a Blue's response.

[Medieve]

Because this would break PvP by popping cooldowns/trinkets after a set up, meaning there's absolutely zero risk attached to using them.

I find that incredibly hard to believe, especially since all it would take to counter burst is dispel the buff that empowered the the DoT's, dispel whoever is DoTted, or both. Especially now, where DoT's are only as good as the abilities that empower them, not the DoT's themselves.

[Demonlock81]

I just posted this on the US bug forums.

I also did a quick test and I am getting the same thing

[11:41:36.703] Demônlock casts Corruption on Raider's Training Dummy
[11:41:38.867] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 6478
[11:41:40.651] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 6478
[11:41:40.898] Demônlock gains Jade Spirit from Demônlock
[11:41:42.586] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 6478
[11:41:42.712] Demônlock casts Corruption on Raider's Training Dummy
[11:41:42.716] Raider's Training Dummy's Corruption is refreshed by Demônlock
[11:41:44.335] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 6826
[11:41:46.199] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 6826
[11:41:48.053] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 6826
[11:41:49.874] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 6825
[11:41:50.772] Demônlock casts Fel Flame on Raider's Training Dummy
[11:41:51.037] Demônlock Fel Flame Raider's Training Dummy 16886
[11:41:51.662] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 7019
[11:41:52.981] Demônlock's Jade Spirit fades from Demônlock
[11:41:53.475] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 7019
[11:41:55.317] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 7019
[11:41:57.122] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 7019
[11:41:58.931] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 7019
[11:42:00.778] Demônlock Corruption Raider's Training Dummy 7019

base damage was 6478 with no procs
damage after the proc was 6825
damage with proc + fel flame refresh was 7019

[Deleted]

Not entirely sure but when refreshing with corruption spell itself it uses half of the original dots duration and dmg ( due to that lvl 90 passive ability ) and uses that in the calculation of the new dot dmg, While when refreshing with FF this doesn't happen and it completly refreshes the dot and uses the new calculation as if its a new dot entirely.

Not good with math but something like this. For the sake of simplicity using a tick each 2 seconds. And ignoring mastery for now. Someone that is good with math can try with all the factors. This is just to show what i mean. :P

1926+ (20% of spellpower) over 18 seconds. Lets say you have 50k spellpower without procs:
1926+10000 = 11926 dmg over 18 seconds(1325,11 a tick ).

Now lets say you get a spell proc of 10k spellpower the new dot calculation would be:
1926+12000 = 13926 dmg over 18 seconds(1547,33 a tick ).
When using FF to refresh it seems to apply this dmg calculation for corruption.
Now if you refresh the old dot with corruption itself and there is still some of the old dot remaining lets say 8 second to keep it simple.
It will now calculate 13926 + 4638 ( what's left of the old dot ) over 26 seconds.
This would give the damage calculation of 13926 + 4638 = 18564 over 26 seconds.(1428 a tick).

[xskarma]

Not entirely sure but when refreshing with corruption spell itself it uses half of the original dots duration and dmg ( due to that lvl 90 passive ability ) and uses that in the calculation of the new dot dmg,

I don't think Pandemic takes ANY damage from the previous dot into consideration. Or it shouldn't at least. You're confusing it with the way Ignite works, I think, but that's not how I've understood Pandemic to work. You refresh, you get a new dot, with the current buffs.

[Iraedey]

I don't think Pandemic takes ANY damage from the previous dot into consideration. Or it shouldn't at least. You're confusing it with the way Ignite works, I think, but that's not how I've understood Pandemic to work. You refresh, you get a new dot, with the current buffs.

This is how it works for UA and Agony. Warlock dots function by simply taking a snapshot of your current stats and applying that damage for that duration. Corruption should follow these rules as well. This bug seems to have even more impact with better gear + multiple procs / 2 piece tier.

With only 1 trinket proc it seems to have ~8% damage loss for me on corruption per tick, however when I proc both trinkets and drink a jade potion, I'm losing close to 20% damage per tick on my corruption as opposed to fel flaming the extra damage on. So the damage lost seems to be scaling with better spell power in the few tests I did with jade pots / flask.

[cabana]

does sb:ss produce the same results of felflame reapplication or with manual reapplication

[Iraedey]

does sb:ss produce the same results of felflame reapplication or with manual reapplication

SB:SS counts as manually refreshing corruption, aka you get the lowered damage version. (Tested this already a few times )

---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 04:43 PM ----------

By the way, the guy who updates simcraft for warlocks said this about the issue

"But yes, the sim does not account for this at the moment. Mostly because the current behavior is clearly not intended - it should either be all dots or no dots that work this way, and preferably fel flame should work the same way."

So overall affliction DPS is lower then the results simcraft provides.

According to him, the issue does seem to be with pandemic, the faster you refresh corruption the less damage it does. If you refresh corruption on its final tick it will have higher damage then refreshing it with the duration pandemic allows, but it will STILL not achieve the damage fel flame does (or just reapplying after it falls off) This obviously hurts a lot when you reapply a corruption faster then its final tick when you get procs. This makes reapplying a buffed corruption very awkward and frustrating with how corruption currently functions, especially when you blow a shard on it. Anyways reguardless of what you do including refreshing corruption with 0.1 seconds left, it never gets the full buffed spell power that it should unless you cast fel flame or allow the dot to completely fall off.

[xskarma]

By the way, the guy who updates simcraft for warlocks said this about the issue

"But yes, the sim does not account for this at the moment. Mostly because the current behavior is clearly not intended - it should either be all dots or no dots that work this way, and preferably fel flame should work the same way."

So overall affliction DPS is lower then the results simcraft provides.

According to him, the issue does seem to be with pandemic, the faster you refresh corruption the less damage it does. If you refresh corruption on its final tick it will have higher damage then refreshing it with the duration pandemic allows, but it will STILL not achieve the damage fel flame does (or just reapplying after it falls off) This obviously hurts a lot when you reapply a corruption faster then its final tick when you get procs. This makes reapplying a buffed corruption very awkward and frustrating with how corruption currently functions, especially when you blow a shard on it. Anyways reguardless of what you do including refreshing corruption with 0.1 seconds left, it never gets the full buffed spell power that it should unless you cast fel flame or allow the dot to completely fall off.

So best thing to do right now is use a fel flame once you see a good proc, to ensure you get max benefit.

I've just checked this, but I'd like others to confirm it. If you get a proc, and then refresh with Fel Flame and then refresh with Corruption, you get the full benefit of the proc while still extending to the full length. So we can either choose to react to a proc with Corruption and then Fel Flame, or Fel Flame first, then Corruption, it seems it does NOT then revert back to lower values again (like I feared it would).

[exogenesis1203]

Could it be due to how corruption calculate damage with Pandemic?
Sure, back in the old days we can just refresh it whenever and keep it uberbuffed.
But with pandemic, maybe they are changing the way it calculates.
Say you cast a corruption without any proc
18sec,
at 9sec, you refresh it when a uberbuffed corruption
now it's at 27sec, however not the entire damage is uberbuffed. The game takes 9sec of unbuff damage, 18 sec of buff damgae and divide it over 27 seconds.
So the extra damage corruption gained from the proc is still the same as the extra damage it gains from a normal 18sec uberbuffed corruption.
But keep refreshing your corruption will slowly balance this.
First, as we know the maximum duration is 50% of base duration, this mean there could be 2 way the system calculate the new damage when you spam corruption.
It can take whatever time left on the current corruption, and apply MIN(corruption duration{18second}, 1.5*corruption duration-current time left{so 27-time left})
Or it can simply use the full 18 second of the new corruption, and take whatever is left on that duration that can fit into the 27 second.
For example
you have a 27second corruption that is only using the buff to 66% efficiency.
It goes to 18 second, you refresh it with another corruption that still have the same buff on it.
Using the first assumption. Now you have 18second of 66% efficiency and 9second of 100% efficiency, this create a 27 second corruption at 77.3% efficiency.
If we use the second assumption, then we have 18 second of 100% efficiency and 9 second of 66%, which makes this 88.7% at 27 seconds.
Considering the someone above is saying you need to spam 5 or 6 corruption to make this reach full potential, I'd assume the first assumption is correct.

So if my hypothesis is true, I guess it's pretty safe to say while under proc/CD, we should not be refreshing the dot until it's absolutely less than 50% of base duration.
However, it should not matter if we fresh at 49% base duration or 0.01% base duration, as it's always giving the same amount of extra damage/GCD (18sec of buffed corruption,etc)

[xskarma]

Could it be due to how corruption calculate damage with Pandemic?
Sure, back in the old days we can just refresh it whenever and keep it uberbuffed.
But with pandemic, maybe they are changing the way it calculates.
Say you cast a corruption without any proc
18sec,
at 9sec, you refresh it when a uberbuffed corruption
now it's at 27sec, however not the entire damage is uberbuffed. The game takes 9sec of unbuff damage, 18 sec of buff damgae and divide it over 27 seconds.
So the extra damage corruption gained from the proc is still the same as the extra damage it gains from a normal 18sec uberbuffed corruption.
But keep refreshing your corruption will slowly balance this.
First, as we know the maximum duration is 50% of base duration, this mean there could be 2 way the system calculate the new damage when you spam corruption.
It can take whatever time left on the current corruption, and apply MIN(corruption duration{18second}, 1.5*corruption duration-current time left{so 27-time left})
Or it can simply use the full 18 second of the new corruption, and take whatever is left on that duration that can fit into the 27 second.
For example
you have a 27second corruption that is only using the buff to 66% efficiency.
It goes to 18 second, you refresh it with another corruption that still have the same buff on it.
Using the first assumption. Now you have 18second of 66% efficiency and 9second of 100% efficiency, this create a 27 second corruption at 77.3% efficiency.
If we use the second assumption, then we have 18 second of 100% efficiency and 9 second of 66%, which makes this 88.7% at 27 seconds.
Considering the someone above is saying you need to spam 5 or 6 corruption to make this reach full potential, I'd assume the first assumption is correct.

So if my hypothesis is true, I guess it's pretty safe to say while under proc/CD, we should not be refreshing the dot until it's absolutely less than 50% of base duration.
However, it should not matter if we fresh at 49% base duration or 0.01% base duration, as it's always giving the same amount of extra damage/GCD (18sec of buffed corruption,etc)

This still does not explain why we get the full strength Corruption when we use Fel Flame.

Besides that, the mechanic you mention is how I understand Ignite and similar "dots" to work. There has never, EVER, been any mention that our normal dots OR Pandemic work like this, not for all the talk in Beta in the theorycrafting thread. If it DOES work like this at the moment I'm sure it's not intended and it will (should) get fixed.

[Deleted]

Well damn. I wish Xelnath was still around.