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  1. #1

    Will wow ever become a social game?

    From http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...doesnt-get-it/

    WoW punishes players attempting to work together outside of groups because of mob tagging and players prefer seeing the enemy in CRZ so they cant kill competition farming quest mobs

    I haven't played other mmos, but didn't Warhammer online and Guild wars 2 have features that let you work together with other players? Why must wow force us to avoid friendly players and be anti-social?
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  2. #2
    The Patient Saerlaith's Avatar
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    Completely agree with that poster. Questing with CRZ in the world has become agony. I don't like leveling through dungeons, so...yeah...not too inclined to play my alts lately.

    And I'm going to need a huge amount of luck to finish up my Frostbitten achiev - only needed Vyragosa as of Cata, which was still quite hard to find given the several TLPD campers on my medium-pop server...now with CRZ and many more people in Storm Peaks, my chances have gone from small to minuscule. Very annoyed with the whole system.

    And nobody wants to group up. Nobody wants to make friendly-like. I don't either. It was a bothersome necessity for group quests even in "the old days" (I remember group quests just sitting in my log forever until I could solo them) and as long as we continue to see players from the same faction as competition, people will avoid grouping up at all costs. It freaking sucks feeling like you can't trust anyone because they might screw you over, and knowing they probably don't trust you either.
    When there is nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.

  3. #3
    Blizzard seems intent on putting in mechanics that cause divisiveness in the community. Competition vs. the other faction is fine IMHO, but more cooperation among players would be appreciated. The reason they gave for no allowing raid groups to complete quests is because it would trivialize the content. Doing the dailies with a group of 5 is already incredibly trivial. I really don't see the difference. Also, I know they want the competition between factions to exist so what not have faction based tagging? All people on the same faction can share a kill. People are afraid dynamic scaling would make things to easy, but encounters like Sha of anger are already incredibly easy. Why not a group of 50, 60? Loot systems that encourage people to screw each other etc... It really does seem they are not interested in not making just conflict between Alliance and Horde but all players to be in conflict with each other.

  4. #4
    Blizzard can't make wow a more social game than it already have potencial to be (and like it once was and still is for some of us), that is entirely up to the players. Personally players on my realm is very nice to invite as soon as they spot some from the same faction, and it isnt even a pvp server so they do it for the sake of it. I really think that you are just unlucky. But indeed there is a lot of angry little teenagers out there who doesnt give a **** about anything than themselfs and their own quests/whatever, guess they found out that mother lied when she told them that they was special, those kind of facts can be hard to swallow for some, and some might get really butthurt.
    We can thank "ourselfs" for that the game is antisocial sometimes, not blizzard. CRZ have potencial to add even more social aspects in the game, but people don't seem to understand that, and they rather wanna use it for camping rare spawns on other servers like dicks. And to all you people from high pop realms, camping your rare stuff on low/medium pop realms... You are a bunch of selfish noobs, nothing more nothing less.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremynative View Post
    I haven't played other mmos, but didn't Warhammer online and Guild wars 2 have features that let you work together with other players?
    Yeah, it's called grouping, and you can do it in WoW as well.

  6. #6
    The only reason I play WoW is because of the social aspect of it.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Idoru View Post
    Yeah, it's called grouping, and you can do it in WoW as well.
    But most people decline the group inv, because it removes your dungeon queue

  8. #8
    This is something that has been increasingly annoying me, especially since I've started GW2. I'm still not sure why Blizzard keeps holding on to the dated concept of mob and node tagging. All I can think of is that they want their MMO not only to have positive experiences but also negative ones to maybe provide a learning experience. Possibly the assumption is that people won't do unto others what they don't like others doing unto them. The only problem is that, unlike IRL, there's no real consequence for being a douche in WoW and Blizzard can't start policing players because they can't see who's right or wrong or if there's anyone clearly right or wrong at all.

    In the mean time GW2 has shown that removing the opportunity for griefing and instead rewarding players who work together makes a much MUCH better gameplay experience.
    - Everyone gets credit for helping kill any mob so when you see a big event and a bunch of players running towards it you join them in the fray.
    - Similarly, when you're in over your head against a group of mobs often someone will come by and help you out.
    - Every gathering node is personal so people advertise in global chat where the expensive ores are etc.
    - Ressing people rewards you with XP and a title after 1000 combat resses and after a while it becomes so natural to res players who are down that you'll notice that even if a player doesn't need the XP or the title they will still res you because it's a nice thing to do.

    Compare this to WoW where, upon seeing other players I go somewhere else to kill the mobs I need to prevent them from tagging my mobs and to prevent me from tagging theirs accidentally (Howling Blast yo). When I see a player in trouble against many mobs I have to wait a bit and see if they are actually in trouble or just AoEing mobs - I don't want to go in all bravado to help them out only to get told to bugger (or often less polite) off because I'm tagging their mobs and wtf are you doing.

    Adding CRZ will only add the illusion of population but adds more hassle for players. People might decline a group invite because it removes you from LFD or they just want to solo a little and not be stuck in a group where you're bound to social constructs like "having to say hi" (though most people don't say a word anyway) and having to tag along to help with quests you have already completed etc. Most people just want to do quests at their own pace and in their own order. You can create a seperate group for each quest or mob you want to kill but that is a lot of hassle. Besides a group is limited to 5 players so, while the tagging issue decreases, it's still there.
    Last edited by Swoopeh; 2012-10-31 at 08:54 AM.

  9. #9
    There are a number of quest mobs in the jade forest that you can work with other players, while not grouped, to kill and everyone gets credit. However these are individual mobs and not "kill x boars" type quests. it'd certainly be nice if you could work with other players while not grouped though.

    Doomhammer EU

  10. #10
    GW2 is not as "friendly" as you'd think. For example if I see somebody go down in an event like world bosses I'll only res at the last second to get my 1280xp. If theres a mob someones fighting I'll tag it for credit towards the event. If I'm farming Cursed Shore events I flat out destroy mobs packs before anyone gets to tag just to guarantee drop chance for me. The only thing GW2 does is cut the bullshit out of questing which makes it easier.

    If anything WoW forces players to be social, in other words join a guild, if they want to do anything past LFR. If you want to get anywhere in PvP, you need to form a team. Or like mob tagging for quests, just throw out an invite and both of you benefit, maybe you'll even converse a bit. But unlike GW2 you don't even have to communicate with anyone at all and still be able to complete the game in its entirety.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Idoru View Post
    Yeah, it's called grouping, and you can do it in WoW as well.
    In GW2 you don't need to group to join in group activities. Everyone who takes part gets credit.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 09:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Brofl View Post
    If I'm farming Cursed Shore events I flat out destroy mobs packs before anyone gets to tag just to guarantee drop chance for me.
    That attitude's flat out mean -stopping other people tagging doesn't affect your chance of loot ("The loot dropped is unique to the player, and loot received by one player does not affect what another player receives" - http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loot).

    Your whole post just shows that while the GW2 rules allow for more adhoc cooperative play, you can still be a complete arse if you're anti-socially inclined.

    WoW does force you to be social to get past LFR but virtually anything else (outside of instances) I'd rather be doing solo.

    GW2 also encourages you to be in a guild if you want to get anywhere at WvW etc. I've not go far enough to know how far you can get pugging the PvE.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brofl View Post
    GW2 is not as "friendly" as you'd think. For example if I see somebody go down in an event like world bosses I'll only res at the last second to get my 1280xp. If theres a mob someones fighting I'll tag it for credit towards the event. If I'm farming Cursed Shore events I flat out destroy mobs packs before anyone gets to tag just to guarantee drop chance for me. The only thing GW2 does is cut the bullshit out of questing which makes it easier.

    If anything WoW forces players to be social, in other words join a guild, if they want to do anything past LFR. If you want to get anywhere in PvP, you need to form a team. Or like mob tagging for quests, just throw out an invite and both of you benefit, maybe you'll even converse a bit. But unlike GW2 you don't even have to communicate with anyone at all and still be able to complete the game in its entirety.
    You might do that but most players will help res from the start (as long as people aren't lying in red circles of 1-shot death). And a zerg is a zerg, everyone AoEs the crap out of mobs to get them tagged. You're not trying to kill mobs before others get to tag them (and purposefully taking away their chance of loot), you're just making sure you get kill credit and loot. Imho event scaling needs to go up when (and if) the game can detect a zerg so it takes a little longer for mobs to die.

    True enough that there's less need for a guild in GW2 as grouping is dynamic and flows without effort, but it does help to have a guild when doing explorables and players who can use TS/vent/mumble. However I do try to be social in both games - making fun of things happening around, helping people out when possible, thanking players when they help me, etc. I notice that in WoW I hardly get a response whereas in GW2 people often join in and we have a laugh and 90% of the time when you res someone they will thank you. Imho it's a generally nicer and more social experience because it removes much of the option to grief, and therefore the fear of being griefed (people are often on edge when they might be griefed and might snap when you accidentally tag their mob or something) and everyone is generally more relaxed.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by laurajorgen View Post
    The reason they gave for no allowing raid groups to complete quests is because it would trivialize the content
    It's not a great reason these days. Most of the quest content (and I think daily quests are really the only ones of interest here) is pretty trivial to solo anyway and in a lot of cases (just about anything but kill-x quests) there's little benefit to grouped up anyway, certainly not at raid level.

    It's annoying that I have to stop daily quests for the 'dead time' while our raids are forming up and we're inevitably waiting for the last one or two people to show up.

    I took to archaeology in the end as that remains unaffected.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ct67 View Post
    In GW2 you don't need to group to join in group activities. Everyone who takes part gets credit.
    GW2 was made that way, changing WoW to work like that would be a major technical undertaking.

  15. #15
    I used to play a game called anarchy-online, it had 2 servers instead of the bajillion that WoW has, there was no server transfer so if you wanted to switch you had to start over. There was no name change and the community was small enough to make everyone know or at least know of everyone. XP was faster gained in groups compared to solo and there wasn't any auto-grouping.

    If you applied to a new guild you knew that if it was a guild worth joining the leader would have a chat with your previous guild leader about you before letting you in, unless they already knew you well. All this made your reputation amongst other people was something you had to nurture carefully, actions had consequences on a whole different level. There was one or two guilds consisting only of social outcasts simply because they had nowhere else to go.

    There also was no upper limit on how many people you could bring to most raids, the only detriment to bringing more people than needed was less loot / person but you did not have to shut out someone you liked just because they weren't very good at the game. The real kicker though is that the same was true for PVP, which happened on a faction vs faction level, so if you wanted your faction to have the upper hand you'd work on getting people to help out because they wanted to repay you a favor even if the pvp itself didn't interest them much.

    All these things combined made for a completely different social experience compared to wow, the community as a whole really had a much better attitude. Some of it is just because wow is so big that you become more or less anonymous but a lot of it is also because of desicions made by blizzard.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire
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    All they need to do is add group quests with rewards and difficulty equal to running a Dungeon.
    Blizz have done there best to make the game a single player game for a lot of the content.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremynative View Post
    From http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...doesnt-get-it/

    WoW punishes players attempting to work together outside of groups because of mob tagging and players prefer seeing the enemy in CRZ so they cant kill competition farming quest mobs

    I haven't played other mmos, but didn't Warhammer online and Guild wars 2 have features that let you work together with other players? Why must wow force us to avoid friendly players and be anti-social?
    It used to be "highly" social, but due to the developer swap, and most notably the increase in casual single player mindset gamers it was replaced for the convenience of life product you have today.., the best thing about it all, is that players who cry about not having anything to do in Cata (The most casual expansion ever) are now crying about having to much to do, after 1 month which is even more brilliant.

    In short, since developers are dumb enough to listen to those types of people, they can't make the game more social, or build on the co-op section of the game outside of raiding, because that means these hyperbole players are forced out of they're little bubbles which is conflicting with they're mantra 'I WANT ALL NAO'
    Last edited by Banzhe; 2012-10-31 at 10:19 AM.

  18. #18
    I don't have many problem lately. I grouped with people from other realms for quests and lately I'm meeting an incredible amount of nice people in instance as well O.o (there's always the ass sometimes of course)

  19. #19
    whats as well on the list of antisocial forces in the game is: Dailies!

    I dont like dailies, but let that aside, just an information for the record.
    As todays dailies have become kinda obligatory for those who want to pull their weight in their raids, they force desocializing even withing guilds.
    Not every Member works from 8 to 16 and logs in at 17. People get on and offline every now and then. Since dailies are so important to most people they decide to do them right away, before they get distracted. Normally they dont even ask if sonmeone wants to accompany them, since other are either not online yet, are done with their dailies yet, or are right in the middle of it.
    So everyone is doing his dailies alone.
    Well, fair enough, if i get to play with my dudes after wards.

    Some of them are just exhausted after the dailies and cant get arsed to run challenge modes with me or whatever. Always when you ask someone to do something, they are either doing dailies or have just done thme and are burned out for the day.

    Cant help it, but since those dailies in MOP WOW has taken one more big step towards a single player game...

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 11:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    I don't have many problem lately. I grouped with people from other realms for quests and lately I'm meeting an incredible amount of nice people in instance as well O.o (there's always the ass sometimes of course)
    I hate shouting at the forums, but dude, READ what the OP posted, not what you THINK what the thread is about judging by its title..

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Idoru View Post
    GW2 was made that way, changing WoW to work like that would be a major technical undertaking.
    But the tech is already there. Named quest mobs can't be tagged, so why not make all mobs that way.

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