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  1. #41
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angryst View Post
    The thing that sucks in my opinion the way things are done now, is if you are on the losing party for your state EC wise, your vote doesn't count. Say what you want but if the individual count for California came down to one vote, the winning 56 or so EC votes would go to that party.

    Why not have the vote set at district level? Each EC ballot divied up to a district within the state. Say then the state (California in my example) would have 35 Dem votes and 21 Rep votes. Then pool that with the other states. Yes I know some states would have less EC (district) votes ie: Montana/Wyoming, but you'd just keep adding them up till all districts in every state were accounted for.
    So the votes of people who live in rural areas count for more than the votes of the people who live in cities.

    Why complicate things with an electoral college at all? National popular vote all the way!
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubblebutt View Post
    1 of the primary advantages of having a "Democracy" was originally intended so that the people had a voice and could choose their leader. But thanks to the Electoral College it goes like this...

    People say: "I want this guy!"
    Electoral College says: "Nah, we want the other guy, and we'd apologize for disagreeing with your choice, but we don't care"

    Some democracy this is.
    WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY

    Why do people not understand this?!

  3. #43
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It's a huge contributing factor to most fascist governments; it's a hell of a lot easier to institute extreme authoritarian policies if there's no vote.

    I have no idea what this assertion is based on.
    It is just as easy to do so if your policies are based on the collective will of masses of generally foolish people.

    It is based on reality as it currently exists. There are forms of government that would last longer and perform better than a republic, but it would do better than your Egyptian government.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  4. #44
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY

    Why do people not understand this?!
    We're a democratic republic, which uses elements of both democracy and republicanism. There's no good reason in the case of the presidency why we shouldn't elect the highest individual representative of the people of the United States directly instead of through some bizarre convoluted state intermediary that just serves to pervert the whole process.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    It is based on reality as it currently exists. There are forms of government that would last longer and perform better than a republic, but it would do better than your Egyptian government.
    It must be an interesting way to go through life to make evidence free assertions and then just say, "it's reality!" when people call you on it. I almost wish my brain worked this way, it's got to be fun to be so damned confident.

  6. #46
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    There's no good reason in the case of the presidency why we shouldn't elect the highest individual representative of the people of the United States directly.
    Because the position of being the single most powerful human being on the planet should not be a popularity contest among masses of generally foolish people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It must be an interesting way to go through life to make evidence free assertions and then just say, "it's reality!" when people call you on it. I almost wish my brain worked this way, it's got to be fun to be so damned confident.
    You actually have no idea. Being a megalomaniac really is one of the best things ever. I would love to know how you imagine a sun worshiping (much of the time) based theocracy would last longer in the modern world ruling over a nation such as the US last longer and doing a better job than a republic.
    Last edited by DEATHETERNAL; 2012-10-31 at 09:43 PM.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    We're a democratic republic, which uses elements of both democracy and republicanism. There's no good reason in the case of the presidency why we shouldn't elect the highest individual representative of the people of the United States directly instead of through some bizarre convoluted state intermediary that just serves to pervert the whole process.
    the reason is that the electoral college worked how it was supposed to for a while...but then people stopped caring about the small state elections and politicians became more and more corrupt the whole thing got screwed.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY

    Why do people not understand this?!
    Holy fuck, I'm sick of people stating this as if they're revealing some deep secret that shows their knowledge of civics. When people use the term "democracy" in general parlance, no one's talking about a formal direct democracy, they're simply referring to a nation where elections are held to determine who the leaders are. This is well known by just about everyone, you're not pointing out anything of any value to any conversation.

  9. #49
    Pandaren Monk Willeonge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Because the position of being the single most powerful human being on the planet should not be a popularity contest among masses of generally foolish people.
    So instead we have the EC, in which the decision is left to a few "undecided voters" in 3-5 states.
    "Laws should be made of iron, not of pudding."

    “A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward.”

    - King Stannis Baratheon

  10. #50
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Because the position of being the single most powerful human being on the planet should not be a popularity contest among masses of generally foolish people.
    I disagree wholeheartedly with that assertion. That's exactly what it should be.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  11. #51
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I disagree wholeheartedly with that assertion. That's exactly what it should be.
    Do you want the world to burn?
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  12. #52
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Do you want the world to burn?
    I don't want you to be the person who gets to decide who is foolish and therefore doesn't deserve a political voice.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  13. #53
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I don't want you to be the person who gets to decide who is foolish and therefore doesn't deserve a political voice.
    I wouldn't be as I likely wouldn't be allowed to vote in the Republic I envision.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    You actually have no idea. Being a megalomaniac really is one of the best things ever. I would love to know how you imagine a sun worshiping (much of the time) based theocracy would last longer in the modern world ruling over a nation such as the US last longer and doing a better job than a republic.
    No one said anything about it "doing a better job". You injected that part just now, possibly because you realized that Egypt's theocracy lasted a very, very long time and that longevity's not actually a great measure of what constitutes a good government.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Holy fuck, I'm sick of people stating this as if they're revealing some deep secret that shows their knowledge of civics. When people use the term "democracy" in general parlance, no one's talking about a formal direct democracy, they're simply referring to a nation where elections are held to determine who the leaders are. This is well known by just about everyone, you're not pointing out anything of any value to any conversation.
    its apparently not well known as people still seem shocked the country is not run like a democracy.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    No one said anything about it "doing a better job". You injected that part just now, possibly because you realized that Egypt's theocracy lasted a very, very long time and that longevity's not actually a great measure of what constitutes a good government.
    If you want to call all the various Egyptian governments one single unified government, you would be both correct in your assertion that that lasted a very long time and uneducated. Egypt had a great many changes in what the nation (or nations in some cases) constituted and how it was ruled/who ruled it that you cannot call it one government. It would be like saying England (being the United Kingdom now) has had the same government since 1066 when it has switched hands in war and changed various times throughout history since then.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    If you want to call all the various Egyptian governments one single unified government, you would be both correct in your assertion that that lasted a very long time and uneducated. Egypt had a great many changes in what the nation (or nations in some cases) constituted and how it was ruled/who ruled it that you cannot call it one government. It would be like saying England (being the United Kingdom now) has had the same government since 1066 when it has switched hands in war and changed various times throughout history since then.
    Damn, those goalposts are moving all over the place. By this standard, the United States has only existed since 1959, when Hawaii joined the Union.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It's amusing that this comes from someone whose location is "USA, more fascist every day". End this fascism now, get rid of all that pointless "voting"!
    The location quote doesn't say whether he thinks that fascism is a good or bad thing. It could also mean "Yay, we're becoming more fascist every day!"

  19. #59
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurax View Post
    The location quote doesn't say whether he thinks that fascism is a good or bad thing. It could also mean "Yay, we're becoming more fascist every day!"
    And if you actually cared and took 2 minutes to check my post history, you would know the answer to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Damn, those goalposts are moving all over the place. By this standard, the United States has only existed since 1959, when Hawaii joined the Union.
    The acquisition of one very small piece of land does not equate with the splitting of a nation into upper and lower Egyptian nations or being conquered and having the theology that was the bases of the nations rule replaced. Maybe had we thrown out the Constitutions in 1959 and started a whole new government your comment would be accurate, but instead we continued the government that had been established as before.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    The acquisition of one very small piece of land does not equate with the splitting of a nation into upper and lower Egyptian nations or being conquered and having the theology that was the bases of the nations rule replaced. Maybe had we thrown out the Constitutions in 1959 and started a whole new government your comment would be accurate, but instead we continued the government that had been established as before.
    So, you'd say 1865 was when the US became a thing? You know, after the Upper and Lower United States were reunited?

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