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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Cathias's Avatar
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    [Prot Paladin]: Threat Issue

    So for a while Ive been having "small" threat issues, mainly in 5man HCs, could it be something with my gear? (both expertise and hit at at 7.5 or a bit above.)

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lderi/advanced

    It could be my rotation or something? what "rotation" do you guys use?

    EDIT: Yes, I use Seal of Insight and Righteous Fury, for all you "funny" people out there.
    Last edited by Cathias; 2012-10-31 at 03:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Make sure you are using seal of insight and righteous fury.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Cathias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Make sure you are using seal of insight and righteous fury.
    Not even close to a good joke.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral TheCrusader's Avatar
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    everything seems fine ...

    for rotation i like to use on multiple target:

    Hammer of the Righteous - Filler - Filler - HotR ...
    Whereas fillers are: (prefer those further up, if it is not on cooldown)
    1.) Avengers Shield
    2.) Consecration
    4.) Holy Wrath
    5.) Judgement

    If you have Light's Hammer (which in fact you do) it would be 0.) (so just above avengers shield)

    i too have sometimes threat problems in 5mans.
    but i guess this is to expect.
    why ? simple: you hardly do any dmg / threat without vengeance stacked up ... when you pull with 0 vengeance and a DPS player in your group scores a good crit or the like even before you hit the mob twice, it is very likely for the mob to turn his attention to the other player.
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  5. #5
    My first recommendation is to remember that many DPS are extremely bursty and don't concern themselves with good threat management. In fact, many make it a personal goal to pull of the tanks.

    Second, paladin AoE threat isn't really strong right now, so if you're noticing yourself only struggling with large AoE packs, that is likely a large part of it.

    Third, try shooting more expertise, with a cap goal of 12.5%. There are two ideas with this build: First, you're able to generate more threat because none of your attacks fail to hit. Second, you're able to generate more steady damage reduction by getting consistent HP generation.

    This build has pretty much removed all of my own struggles with threat aside from especially bursty classes like destro locks and frost DKs, and even then, only have problems in the first 10 seconds if at all.

  6. #6
    Seal of insight is not a threat generating seal, beyond the small healing you do with it. It deals NO holy damage unless you judge with it. Seal of righteousness is good to use on pulls of multiple mobs, as every attack will cause a portion of holy damage to each enemy in range. Seal of Truth is good for single target threat, if you have trouble with that, and is the single target dps choice if you can sacrifice the survivability benefits of seal of insight.

    Righteous fury should definitely be on.

    Aoe threat rotation should be hammer of the righteous, concecration, holy wrath, filler as long as you arent dying from lack of holy power. It also helps if youre the first one to pull the boss/pack, and not some overzealous dps.

    Putting Hand of protection on caster/healers and hand of salvation on anyone pulling threat can also help.

    Edit: forgot avengers shield, that one is useful :P exp hard cap is also a great dps/threat gain

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Cathias's Avatar
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    Right now I use Seal of Insight for singletarget and Seal of Righteousness for AoE(trash only) using Seal of Insight for bosses with adds aswell, sadly I have no clue how to get to 12.5% expertise because, as you can see, I have already reforged everything to hit & expertise.

    Also, I have been thinking of using Holy Prism with the Targetself & targetlasttarget macro

    #showtooltip
    /target Calderi
    /cast Holy Prism
    /targetlasttarget

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral TheCrusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    Seal of insight is not a threat generating seal, beyond the small healing you do with it. It deals NO holy damage unless you judge with it. Seal of righteousness is good to use on pulls of multiple mobs, as every attack will cause a portion of holy damage to each enemy in range. Seal of Truth is good for single target threat, if you have trouble with that, and is the single target dps choice if you can sacrifice the survivability benefits of seal of insight.
    true, SoI is no dps seal ... but since the one hotfix that reduces SoR and SoT dmg it is the best seal ... SoR and SoT (depending on the situation) only deal about 2-3% of a prot palas overall dmg ... 3% won't make a difference when pulling ... ever since that hotfix i never used SoR or SoT on my pala again since the benefit has become so neglectable.
    My signature was too big, so now I use this one.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Right now I use Seal of Insight for singletarget and Seal of Righteousness for AoE(trash only) using Seal of Insight for bosses with adds aswell, sadly I have no clue how to get to 12.5% expertise because, as you can see, I have already reforged everything to hit & expertise.
    You may have to regear a little bit... Most of the 463 tank pieces have parallel pieces from other raids that have expertise instead of one of the defense stats. Also, try checking DPS pieces that have exp/mastery. The Ghost Iron Dragonling can be a very useful piece as well, and if all else fails, you can replace some gems with some Precise Serpent's eyes. You should gem stam instead of mastery anyway, and if threat is an issue, expertise can pull ahead in a practical sense.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Right now I use Seal of Insight for singletarget and Seal of Righteousness for AoE(trash only) using Seal of Insight for bosses with adds aswell, sadly I have no clue how to get to 12.5% expertise because, as you can see, I have already reforged everything to hit & expertise.

    Also, I have been thinking of using Holy Prism with the Targetself & targetlasttarget macro
    Holy prism is a nice cleave and will definitely help. For getting more exp, I would highly recommend ghost-iron dragonling trinket with hit-exp-mast cogwheels. +600 to each cogged stat.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral TheCrusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Right now I use Seal of Insight for singletarget and Seal of Righteousness for AoE(trash only) using Seal of Insight for bosses with adds aswell, sadly I have no clue how to get to 12.5% expertise because, as you can see, I have already reforged everything to hit & expertise.
    i would not recommend going for the exp cap ... you see ... exp boosts only some of our attacks, hit boosts all ... i guess that having exp on soft cap is sufficient ... i have even less, but go more for mastery and haste.

    #showtooltip
    /target Calderi
    /cast Holy Prism
    /targetlasttarget
    i also don't recommend going on Holy Prism ... it isn't that good and our cooldowns aren't that long so we don't need another filler ...
    Light's hammer is better for AoE aggro.

    Also your macro would be simpler if it looked like this:

    #showtooltip
    /cast [@player] Holy Prism

    the term [@player] will take you into target for that spell despite any other target you might have targeted.
    My signature was too big, so now I use this one.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Cathias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    Holy prism is a nice cleave and will definitely help. For getting more exp, I would highly recommend ghost-iron dragonling trinket with hit-exp-mast cogwheels. +600 to each cogged stat.
    Instead of what? I suppose the brewfest trinket is the worse of the two, not sure tho.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulderfox View Post
    You should gem stam instead of mastery anyway, and if threat is an issue, expertise can pull ahead in a practical sense.
    Stam is nice, but as long as you arent dying in 4-5 attacks, your stam is probably high enough (always dependent on healer quality, though). I gemmed exp to help reach my hard cap and then filled the rest with mastery.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...morisse/simple

    theres my armory, maybe it can provide some insights or... something. Having epics certainly helps with all the stat capping too

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Instead of what? I suppose the brewfest trinket is the worse of the two, not sure tho.
    once you feel comfortable with your health pool you could replace either of those stam trinkets with secondary stat trinkets. I would agree, though, that the brewfest trinket is probably inferior to the proc-ing one.
    Last edited by Monolith of Mazes; 2012-10-31 at 03:51 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Instead of what? I suppose the brewfest trinket is the worse of the two, not sure tho.
    Definitely replace the Brewfest one as it lacks a secondary benefit.

    i would not recommend going for the exp cap ... you see ... exp boosts only some of our attacks, hit boosts all ... i guess that having exp on soft cap is sufficient ... i have even less, but go more for mastery and haste.
    Going for the exp hard cap makes it so our special attacks and holy power attacks cannot be parried. This means that all of our important threat generation attacks cannot fail.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Right now I use Seal of Insight for singletarget and Seal of Righteousness for AoE(trash only) using Seal of Insight for bosses with adds aswell, sadly I have no clue how to get to 12.5% expertise because, as you can see, I have already reforged everything to hit & expertise.

    Also, I have been thinking of using Holy Prism with the Targetself & targetlasttarget macro

    #showtooltip
    /target Calderi
    /cast Holy Prism
    /targetlasttarget
    Don't even need all that. This is what I use:


    Originally Posted by Holy Prism Macro Self Target

    #showtooltip Holy Prism
    /cast [@player]Holy Prism; [mod:alt, target=target]Holy Prism




    Basically it autotargets you and radiates to the aoe damage. I'll warn you though that it doesn't really generate threat. Found this out when I was with a buddy and they ran towards him and I hit the button (It did damage and healed me) and he still ran for the person. Tested it out several more times after that and still no threat from it at all.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Not even close to a good joke.
    It was not a joke at all. The only possible way that I see you not holding aggro is if your

    1. Not using seal of insight
    2. Not using rigtheous fury

    You can pretty much guarantee aggro in any 5 man hc while using does two.

    Bind Hammer of the righteous, concecration, avenger shield, shield of the righteous to 1,2,3,4 on your keyboard and just button mash 1,2,3,4

    In no way would that be optimal, but you would never lose aggro. I am sorry but I just do not see the question here, threat is not even an issue.

    Do not use seal of the rigtheous even on AoE, seal of insight will give your more threat. ( do not underestimate healing aggro )
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2012-10-31 at 03:57 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Do not use seal of the rigtheous, seal of insight will give your more threat. ( do not underestimate healing aggro )
    I'm not too sure about this. With 3 dps aoe-ing a pack, the tiny healing threat generated isnt going to grab any mobs attention. Think of it this way: how often do healers pull threat compared to dps?

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral TheCrusader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulderfox View Post
    Going for the exp hard cap makes it so our special attacks and holy power attacks cannot be parried. This means that all of our important threat generation attacks cannot fail.
    of course ... but do you really have threat issue in raids ?
    i rather have some more survivability than threat ...

    typically after 10-20 sec into a bossfight have so much aggro, that i could go afk for a minute and not lose the boss ... that's why i said that hard cap - even soft cap - is not necessary.
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  19. #19
    Well seeing as the title of this thread is Prot Paladin Threat Issue

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Cathias's Avatar
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    Right, so I actually managed to get to 15% expertise and still be hitcapped while only losing 1% block and 30k hp

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