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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    So for a while Ive been having "small" threat issues, mainly in 5man HCs, could it be something with my gear? (both expertise and hit at at 7.5 or a bit above.)

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lderi/advanced

    It could be my rotation or something? what "rotation" do you guys use?

    EDIT: Yes, I use Seal of Insight and Righteous Fury, for all you "funny" people out there.
    Do you use any addons?

    Something like tidy plates threat plates might really help you out with AoE threat. Basically, it'll lite up the nameplates you DONT have aggro on, all you need to do is taunt to bring em back in line.

    Also, in 5man heroics, unless your healer is weak, try to minimise time between pulls. if you can coast from one pull to the next with at least one mob still pounding on you, your vengeance won't drop, and therefore your threat should stay in line.

    Also, you could try switching in some more DPS orientented gear, aiming for more haste. More haste = more hammer of the righteous/CS = more holy power.



    In regards to holy prism; I started tanking with that, and found it was not adhereing to LoS. In the theramore scenario, it was pulling mobs from the floor above me. In karazhan it was pulling servants from the other side of a wall. I think it might be good in something like LFR and BGs, but for 5 mans, I would personally avoid it.

    I would swap out one of those solid stam trinkets, too. probably the Brewfest one. See if you can steal something with expertise or haste.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    I'm not too sure about this. With 3 dps aoe-ing a pack, the tiny healing threat generated isnt going to grab any mobs attention. Think of it this way: how often do healers pull threat compared to dps?
    Healers dont have righteous fury, or well, don't use it. The tiny healing threat is not even remotely close to tiny when you can easily pull 40-70k hps on an aoe pack.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2012-10-31 at 04:11 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Healers dont have righteous fury, or well, don't use it. The tiny healing threat is not even remotely close to tiny when you can easily pull 40-70k hps on an aoe pack.
    Right, RF Healing > healing, but RF DPS > DPS (threat-wise). And if DPS pulls more threat than healing, then RF DPS should pull more threat than RF Healing. Especially on the pull, with low vengeance. Initially, you wont be healing for very much; meanwhile your fury warrior just popped all of his cds and is cleaving like a slap-chop.
    Last edited by Monolith of Mazes; 2012-10-31 at 04:18 PM.

  4. #24
    I reckon for 5mans, Holy Prism is a good choice; when I was tanking 5mans a week into Mists, with my gear being around 455 or so, Holy Prism was working wonders for threat. I'd pull with Avenger's Shield, hit hammer of the righteous and then a Holy Prism cast on myself proved to be a big threat gain. Obviously, Holy prism isn't the optimal talent for max dps/healing, but in a 5 man setting, I found it was great.

  5. #25
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    You really do not need to gem stam for 5 mans/normal mode raids.
    If you are having threat problems look at getting hit/exp capped then focus on your rotation / mob awareness.
    Keeping it real since 1864.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Not even close to a good joke.

    In case you haven't read the nerf to Censure, Prot Paladins shouldn't be using seal of truth any longer. You should be running seal of insight with glyph of battle healer.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 09:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    Seal of insight is not a threat generating seal, beyond the small healing you do with it. It deals NO holy damage unless you judge with it. Seal of righteousness is good to use on pulls of multiple mobs, as every attack will cause a portion of holy damage to each enemy in range. Seal of Truth is good for single target threat, if you have trouble with that, and is the single target dps choice if you can sacrifice the survivability benefits of seal of insight.

    Righteous fury should definitely be on.

    Aoe threat rotation should be hammer of the righteous, concecration, holy wrath, filler as long as you arent dying from lack of holy power. It also helps if youre the first one to pull the boss/pack, and not some overzealous dps.

    Putting Hand of protection on caster/healers and hand of salvation on anyone pulling threat can also help.

    Edit: forgot avengers shield, that one is useful :P exp hard cap is also a great dps/threat gain
    No Seal of Insight does not generate threat but you should be using Glyph Of Battle Healer alongside it, and that will generate a wholesome amount of threat.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    Right, RF Healing > healing, but RF DPS > DPS (threat-wise). And if DPS pulls more threat than healing, then RF DPS should pull more threat than RF Healing. Especially on the pull, with low vengeance. Initially, you wont be healing for very much; meanwhile your fury warrior just popped all of his cds and is cleaving like a slap-chop.
    It is not like you are doing 0 dps with seal of insight. Thing is 40k hps > 4k dps in terms of threat.

    Seal of Insight does a whole lot more threat single targer than Seal of Truth aswell. Seal of truth is really useless. Only if for some reason every takes 0 damage is it worth using.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    It is not like you are doing 0 dps with seal of insight. Thing is 40k hps > 4k dps in terms of threat.

    Seal of Insight does a whole lot more threat single targer than Seal of Truth aswell. Seal of truth is really useless. Only if for some reason every takes 0 damage is it worth using.
    Yes, but 40k hps won't happen at the start of a pull, you'll only be able to achieve that after vengeance ramps up. In terms of threat generation only, SoR would out-threat SoI at the start of the pull. If the OP is still finding AoE threat difficult, I suggest use SoR at the start of the pull, and swap to SoI after threat is well established.

  9. #29
    Problem is that the same applies for SoR, SoR does not do any damage before vengaence ramps up so it will be even worse. Though really, I do not understand this thread, threat is not even remotely close to an issue. Only time I have ever lost threat in this expac is when our warrior was bladestorming with cds in defensive stance. Threat is just a joke atm.

    A tip if your losing threat, pull more. More vengeance = easier threat.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    You really do not need to gem stam for 5 mans/normal mode raids.
    If you are having threat problems look at getting hit/exp capped then focus on your rotation / mob awareness.
    You don't need to gem pure Stam anywhere...... Mastery > Stam. Go for hybrid.. stop gemming stam, it's as dumb as it was in Cata

  11. #31
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abyssion View Post
    You don't need to gem pure Stam anywhere...... Mastery > Stam. Go for hybrid.. stop gemming stam, it's as dumb as it was in Cata
    Im not sure when i said gem for stam at all? i said dont gem for stam....
    Keeping it real since 1864.

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Cathias's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Bubblebutt;18941198]In case you haven't read the nerf to Censure, Prot Paladins shouldn't be using seal of truth any longer. You should be running seal of insight with glyph of battle healer.[COLOR="red"]

    I'm very known to that nerf what I ment was the whole Rightous Fury thing, its quite obvious to use.

  13. #33
    Im surprised that nobody has mentioned the old marking macro.

    Just bind the skull mark to a key and mark something before you pull. More often than not I find that your fellow dungeon mates will respond and focus their attacks on that mob. I will admit that it can sometimes be a challenge on the initial pull as a warrior dropping all of their cooldowns will probably pull threat if they aren't on your primary target. Also consider using the glyph to stun with your shield as this will give you a few seconds to dps the mobs a bit while they are stunned. Conc-Holy Wrath- whatnot.

  14. #34
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relur View Post
    Im surprised that nobody has mentioned the old marking macro.

    Just bind the skull mark to a key and mark something before you pull. More often than not I find that your fellow dungeon mates will respond and focus their attacks on that mob. I will admit that it can sometimes be a challenge on the initial pull as a warrior dropping all of their cooldowns will probably pull threat if they aren't on your primary target. Also consider using the glyph to stun with your shield as this will give you a few seconds to dps the mobs a bit while they are stunned. Conc-Holy Wrath- whatnot.
    Tbh I really wouldn't recommend stunning targets on the pull if you're having threat problems. Our threat is a function of AP which is primarily affected by vengeance, which in turn is built by taking damage. Whereas that pesky dps unleashing hell isn't so constrained, and will more likely pull off you (though the mobs maybe dead by then anyhoo).

    Having said that there is no shield glyph that stuns (one that slows yes, again a bad thing). There is a glyph to make your holy wrath stun additional monster types (elementals being quite useful in certain situations -here's to you elegon), but again not really recommended.
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2012-10-31 at 06:11 PM.
    Keeping it real since 1864.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Tbh I really wouldn't recommend stunning targets on the pull if you're having threat problems. Our threat is a function of AP which is primarily affected by vengeance, which in turn is built by taking damage. Whereas that pesky dps unleashing hell isn't so constrained, and will more likely pull off you (though the mobs maybe dead by then anyhoo).

    Having said that there is no shield glyph that stuns (one that slows yes, again a bad thing). There is a glyph to make your holy wrath stun additional monster types (elementals being quite useful in certain situations -here's to you elegon), but again not really recommended.
    Sorry if I wasn't clear on this, I generally am jumping into the next group while dragging the last mob of the last trash pack. I find the slow to be beneficial because it keeps everyone close so I can go in and bomb them with aoe. Combine this together and I will generally keep the aggro on everything.

  16. #36
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Try haste instead of mastery - haste gives better tps/dps/hps and lesses your damage taken

  17. #37
    The Patient Higg's Avatar
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    Unless you're having difficulty staying alive, which you shouldn't in a 5man heroic, you shouldn't be using Seal of Insight. Yes, it's great for boss fights and raiding when there's a substantial amount of time spent below 80% hp, but in a 5man heroic you should have no difficulty staying alive with a healer.

    So, if you're having difficulty with threat, use Seal of Righteousness on trash and Seal of Truth on the boss. The fact that Seal of Truth was nerfed is irrelevant; SoT is for single-target damage, SoR is for AoE damage, SoI is for improved self-healing. If you're only fighting one target, and you don't need more self-healing, then you should be using Seal of Truth. If you like carrying healers, though, I suppose you could use Seal of Insight and continue to do cruddy threat. When I tank trash in a 5man, I use SoR and I'm always top on damage.

    Also, it's good to encourage your dps to always target your target.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Higg View Post
    Unless you're having difficulty staying alive, which you shouldn't in a 5man heroic, you shouldn't be using Seal of Insight. Yes, it's great for boss fights and raiding when there's a substantial amount of time spent below 80% hp, but in a 5man heroic you should have no difficulty staying alive with a healer.

    So, if you're having difficulty with threat, use Seal of Righteousness on trash and Seal of Truth on the boss. The fact that Seal of Truth was nerfed is irrelevant; SoT is for single-target damage, SoR is for AoE damage, SoI is for improved self-healing. If you're only fighting one target, and you don't need more self-healing, then you should be using Seal of Truth. If you like carrying healers, though, I suppose you could use Seal of Insight and continue to do cruddy threat. When I tank trash in a 5man, I use SoR and I'm always top on damage.

    Also, it's good to encourage your dps to always target your target.
    I use SoI and I am always top on damage and top on healing. Usually tell the healer to go dps and use 4 dps, goes alot faster.
    Not to mention that SoI does more threat than SoR.

  19. #39
    The Patient Higg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I use SoI and I am always top on damage and top on healing. Usually tell the healer to go dps and use 4 dps, goes alot faster.
    Not to mention that SoI does more threat than SoR.
    I try to avoid telling other people what to do.
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  20. #40
    Sot and sor provide questionable gains at best. You should be using soi... if you aren't at risk of dying you aren't pulling aggressively enough. You aren't taking dangerous amounts of damage you aren't building enough vengeance and are lowing your over all damage output... and healing output.

    It's counter to what we use to think... if you were having issues Then keep the pulls to three or four and learn to tab target... but now with vengeance as insane as it is the best way to be sure to maintain threat it to never pull conservatively. The healing from soi and battle healer will be more than enough to pull/keep agro after a few seconds of any pull of 6 or more with just a normal aoe rotation. The easiest example of this is in scholomance if the you are banished the adds that continue to be summoned by the boss will stream right to you because of soi/battle healer with rf up.

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