GC: "Rogues are fine, L2P"

[Sesshou]

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ination_Rogue/ VS http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ral-Cat_Druid/

no, rogues do not need "rotational damage increase". It's already higher than feral...

...than warrior http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play.../Fury_Warrior/

...and paladin http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ution_Paladin/

among the melee classes. you do not need raw damage buffs.

You can quote all the pve numbers you want but thats a different setting with different buffs/debuffs. Also, no matter if they make ShS and BoS both baseline, we still loose auto attacks which is a substantial part of our dps by being kited. Most of that feral damage is simply them unloading energy into cp builders and finishers. Those things aren't hurt at all by having to run around unless its long enough to energy cap. Their bleeds ignore armor which is one of our major problems.

I should not need a major cooldown to out dps a warrior's passive healing through second wind. That is not fine damage output. Now it may be fine against clothies, but its completely gimp outside of long dps cooldowns on plate where as none of the other melee really seem to have that issue from what I've seen.

[Nosferato]

or make dirty tricks baseline, allow us to have one utillity poison, and make one tier in the talent tree the poison tier, giving you an adittional utility poison in pvp, and a secondary pve dmg effect, like % proc that would give you a free attack, or armor pen poison, atleast it would help in pve for not sacrificing self heal to slow while others have both free, in pvp you still have to choose between wound(becomes utility) mind numb,and make crippeling baseline like other slows, but only works on skills and not auto attack , and then choose one of the 3 talents poisons you want, but blizz proably was too busy with monks they scrapped us for another expansion.

leeching poison could be a passive effect to help the rogue self heal, physical attacks heal in combat/sub + bleeds, while assa heal of poison dmg.

3 new poisons could then be made into lots of things, the pve effect could actually be poison bombs.

[ati87]

Don't get to excited because you missed the a part where Gc wrote i

mproving Rogue mobility and control in conservative ways.

In other words you won't be getting stuff baseline or a new spell, you will most likley get cooldowns reduced or at best get a extra effect.

[Raldazzar]

Rogue damage IS fine. but our utility/toolkit is old and stale. making us have alot less time on target then we should, which results in seemingly lower damage.

the bst, and most simple example is Readiness vs Prep? they get it baseline. and it resets every spell, ours is a talent on a VERY valuable line with a near must have utility spell (something they acknowledge we lack!) and it only resets a handful of spells! this is the problem!

[Bluegirl91]

I fail to understand why people even bother with these posts. So, your not as good as you were last season. Arena has always been the flavor of the patch, and you should be used to it by now. Remember the mage/lock/shaman? Get over it and relax, your time in the sun will come again.

So you basically say evil is okay and should be tolerated until it is bored and goes away? xD

[Maveaux]

How about reading some dev warercooler first?
Rogue is doing fine, other classes are just too strong atm. And the fixes are already announced.

[Cyanix]

"Rogues aint weak, it's just every other class is overpowered".

[Aldoran]

Hello GC,

Perhaps you remember my retired Horde Rogue, Ypologos. I am back to my original Vanilla Alliance Rogue from 2006 now.

i lol'd so hard on this words.

[T Man]

How about reading some dev warercooler first?
Rogue is doing fine, other classes are just too strong atm. And the fixes are already announced.

rogues are not "fine" They scales to good with gear meaning right now they are bad.

Some of our cd's are far to long. Why every other class get a CC with very short CD.

Rogues = blind 3min cd
Vanish sap = 3min cd
bomb = 3mins

The only good cd's we can use on the fly are:
Sprint (does not break roots) = 1 min cd
shadow dance into bomb into sap is a 1 off 3min set up unless you take off the bomb and use your team mate to cc them out of combat.

The only thing I dislike about the "current state" of rogues why is our best cc on a 3min cd.

[Rajidon]

I'm just laughing at rogues atm. Because last season this was the exact opposite. Rogues were in like the top 3 played comps. Rogues were basically on every RBG team, they were so stupidly derpy. Who cares, you'll be OP again soon. Every class does this though, if THEIR class isn't the most played, easiest to use, most OP classes currently, they feel the need to complain, like Blizzard doesn't already know whats going on.

I think it was last season that warriors made up less than 5% of players above 2200 in 3s. Now look at them, on every team comp. You'll get your turn again, rogues.

---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 05:19 PM ----------

Rogue damage IS fine. but our utility/toolkit is old and stale. making us have alot less time on target then we should, which results in seemingly lower damage.

This looks exactly like warriors last season. They had good damage, but it was impossible to actually deal damage because of their lack of utility, and they were so easy to CC. Its just the cycle of WoW.

[ati87]

I'm just laughing at rogues atm. Because last season this was the exact opposite. Rogues were in like the top 3 played comps. Rogues were basically on every RBG team, they were so stupidly derpy. Who cares, you'll be OP again soon. Every class does this though, if THEIR class isn't the most played, easiest to use, most OP classes currently, they feel the need to complain, like Blizzard doesn't already know whats going on.

I think it was last season that warriors made up less than 5% of players above 2200 in 3s. Now look at them, on every team comp. You'll get your turn again, rogues.

---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 05:19 PM ----------



This looks exactly like warriors last season. They had good damage, but it was impossible to actually deal damage because of their lack of utility, and they were so easy to CC. Its just the cycle of WoW.

Rogues aside you should not even complain about pvp as a warrior.

If your a betting man then you should bet on that warriors will become strong/op during any season because of all the classes warriors in PVP probably had 1 bad season each expansion.

And just because you have a single bad season (or a season where your average) does not mean the whole expansion was bad for you.

[Lord Gaga]

Hello, rogues, welcome to the shaman club.

[Rajidon]

Rogues aside you should not even complain about pvp as a warrior.

If your a betting man then you should bet on that warriors will become strong/op during any season because of all the classes warriors in PVP probably had 1 bad season each expansion.

And just because you have a single bad season (or a season where your average) does not mean the whole expansion was bad for you.

Don't you see that we agree? Lol... How can you say rogues will be broken for all of MoP? We are still in the first season. I didn't say warriors were broken for all of Cata, I said last season. Just like I said rogues are broken this season, and that they will be back to their normal state at some point. I said its the cycle of WoW. How did you miss that?

Warriors made up less than 5% of played class in 3s(I actually think it was less than 5%) last season. That isn't average.

[mrinvisable2]

2 words dps shamans when really viable

[Sesshou]

2 words dps shamans when really viable

There is an incredibly massive difference between your entire class not being viable and only having 1 viable spec. Neither is ideal, but you're being incredibly foolish if you don't see how they are worlds apart.

[Stede]

I fail to understand why people even bother with these posts. So, your not as good as you were last season. Arena has always been the flavor of the patch, and you should be used to it by now. Remember the mage/lock/shaman? Get over it and relax, your time in the sun will come again.

I fail to understand why people come to grief legitimate threads like this. You guys seem to think that Blizzard is capable of uncovering these disparities on their own. They're not. Unless someone highlights the issue, it will go unnoticed. Unless others chime in with their agreement, Blizzard will dismiss it as one crazy guy. It's incomprehensible that folks who have no stake in the discussion (i.e. don't play a rogue) come into these threads to try to stifle good discussion.

I honestly can't fathom the rational motivation behind something like that.

[Fanatik]

In before the following QQ:

"ZOMG THE GAMEZ TOO EZ FFS U LISTEN TO N00BZ NOW I AND MY GUILD OF HARDCOREZ WILL QUIT WOW TO PLAY TETRIS"

Cry more.

this just seems appropriate.

[Sturmbringe]

I will write a few details about how the class played in Vanilla when I started playing (patch 1.8-1.9).

BACKSTAB did 500 damage to 1k damage (crit) and costed 40 energy I think.
AMBUSH did 600 to 1.2k damage (crit) and costed 40 energy I think.
EVISCERATE did 1200 to 2500 damage (crit) and costed 35 enery.

People had 4k health pools back in Vanilla on average. If you extrapolate those numbers to today's WoW you get:

BACKSTAB did from 12.5% to 25% of one's health pool damage.
AMBUSH did from 15% to 30% of one's health pool damage.
EVISCERATE did from 30% to 62.5% of one's health pool damage, hence "finisher" something that Rogues just don't have today.

In MoP numbers, these abilities should hit for (340k health pool standard, no resilience):

BACKSTAB 42.5k to 85k
AMBUSH 51k to 102k
EVISCERATE 102k to 212.5k

The same abilities now hit and crit for 1/4 of the values noted above. Put simply, this is one of the reasons why Rogues are useless in PvP atm, as the OP's statistics prove.

Please note: The above numbers refer to PvP combat only.

[Gestopft]

I fail to understand why people come to grief legitimate threads like this. ... It's incomprehensible that folks who have no stake in the discussion (i.e. don't play a rogue) come into these threads to try to stifle good discussion.

I honestly can't fathom the rational motivation behind something like that.

"You can't do that while stunned." "You are dead."

Most WoW players can recall a number of discussions with a rogue in which they were unable to field a counter-argument. It's not really a "rational motivation" but surely you realize how many people have been waiting YEARS to feed on Rogue tears?

OT: Rogues could probably use some more uptime and could definitely use more active damage, especially for Assassination.

[Sturmbringe]

Actually no, Assassination is rather okay with Vendetta+Shadow Blades up IMHO. It is Sub, THE Rogue PvP spec (direct descendant of Ming's Cookie Cutter Assassination/Sub Vanilla Spec) whose damage is sub-par and needs a buff.

GC's -4% Sanguinary Veins nerf in Sub was entirely unnecessary, and it has led -amongst other things- to the rather ridiculous situation of Rogues being specced Spec 1: Assassination (PvP) and Spec 2: Assassination (PvE).