shadowpriest gemming question

[Aere]

So, i've finally reached the 8085 haste plataeu, but i'd just like to confirm that now i am past the haste cap, i can start re-gemming intellect once the native haste on gear eventually gets to a point where it equals 8085.

for instance, When i upgrade the raid finder elegon trinket, 956 haste, to the heroic one, 1218 haste, difference of 262 haste, i can re-gem a pure haste gem (320 haste) to a reckless gem (160 haste + 80 intellect) for a loss of 160 haste. still leaving myself with 102 over haste cap, (currently 14 haste over haste cap, so in reality 116 over haste cap).

So in an attempt to summarise, Should i regem back into intellect through various gems when i reach over 160 haste over the cap.

EDIT: The reason i may be asking this somewhat weird question is that the Shadowpriest DPS guide, has had me second guessing over the gem choices discussed.

[Redsparowe]

depends on the stat weights with the gear you have. run a sim.
If the stat weight of your 2nd stat (most likely crit) is over half that of intellect then it's still worth gemming a secondary stat thanks to the double stat yellow gems.

[Zarqa]

Yes. If you feel reaching the haste cap through gemming is a DPS increase (opinions still vary somewhat on this), then replacing haste gems with int gems while staying above 8085 will also be a DPS increase.

Currently no secondary stat other than hit/spirit sims above 0.5x Int for Shadowpriests. You should be able to reach the hitcap through reforging alone. Therefore, Int gems are always the best choice.

[stiglet]

depends on the stat weights with the gear you have. run a sim.
If the stat weight of your 2nd stat (most likely crit) is over half that of intellect then it's still worth gemming a secondary stat thanks to the double stat yellow gems.

Crit is NEVER worth gemming. Haste is ALWAYS better than crit, above or below the breakpoint. Basically, if Haste is good below the breakpoint for you, it will still be good above the breakpoint.

But to be honest, from my experience so far, haste isn't worth gemming at all. The breakpoint is not that much of a dps boost, and intellect is always more than twice as good (for me at least). But as mentioned before, runa sim for yourself and do some tests on a dummy / raid.

[Spinalcrack]

Crit is NEVER worth gemming. Haste is ALWAYS better than crit, above or below the breakpoint. Basically, if Haste is good below the breakpoint for you, it will still be good above the breakpoint.

But to be honest, from my experience so far, haste isn't worth gemming at all. The breakpoint is not that much of a dps boost, and intellect is always more than twice as good (for me at least). But as mentioned before, runa sim for yourself and do some tests on a dummy / raid.

I agree gemming crit is a bad idea. Int or haste only, but it is possible to have crit scale higher than haste in certain gear sets, so lets not mislead people.

Also, the reason people have not been gemming pure int in some cases is if haste scales over .5 then the pp values of the hybrid and secondary stat gems can be higher. ie

160int gem = 160pp
80int_160haste gem = 80 + (160 x 0.5) = 160pp

So you can see if the haste scale value is greater than 0.5 then the pp value of the hybrid gem is greater. Let's say it is scaling at 0.65

80 + (160 x 0.65) = 184pp or a pure haste gem at this scaling would be 320 x 0.65 = 208, so a 48pp increase over the pure int gem. All depends on how haste is scaling for YOU, in YOUR gear, and fluctuates with every stat change, (that's why it takes a lot sims to really nail down a maxed gear set).

Reaching 8085 haste is worth 200-360pp depending on your gearset, so if you are going to give up more than 200int from gems by gemming haste to reach the 8085 breakpoint then it's not worth it.

Now that little statement I just gave is a VERY loose guideline, and can be affected by many things, but if you only care a little about min maxing and don't want to run a lot of sims with a lot of math, its a safe rule of thumb imo.

A lot more detail on this subject is available at H2P

So in an attempt to summarise, Should i regem back into intellect through various gems when i reach over 160 haste over the cap.

Yes! After the 8085 breakpoint, haste will definitely fall below 0.5 normalized scale value, and int will be better for sure while you are close, but over 8085 haste.

[stiglet]

I agree gemming crit is a bad idea. Int or haste only, but it is possible to have crit scale higher than haste in certain gear sets, so lets not mislead people.

Also, the reason people have not been gemming pure int in some cases is if haste scales over .5 then the pp values of the hybrid and secondary stat gems can be higher. ie

160int gem = 160pp
80int_160haste gem = 80 + (160 x 0.5) = 160pp

So you can see if the haste scale value is greater than 0.5 then the pp value of the hybrid gem is greater. Let's say it is scaling at 0.65

80 + (160 x 0.65) = 184pp or a pure haste gem at this scaling would be 320 x 0.65 = 208, so a 48pp increase over the pure int gem. All depends on how haste is scaling for YOU, in YOUR gear, and fluctuates with every stat change, (that's why it takes a lot sims to really nail down a maxed gear set).

Reaching 8085 haste is worth 200-360pp depending on your gearset, so if you are going to give up more than 200int from gems by gemming haste to reach the 8085 breakpoint then it's not worth it.

Now that little statement I just gave is a VERY loose guideline, and can be affected by many things, but if you only care a little about min maxing and don't want to run a lot of sims with a lot of math, its a safe rule of thumb imo.

A lot more detail on this subject is available at H2P



Yes! After the 8085 breakpoint, haste will definitely fall below 0.5 normalized scale value, and int will be better for sure while you are close, but over 8085 haste.

I'm yet to see where any situation would lead to crit ever being worth more than 0.5 pp of intellect. It's hardly ever above 0.3, never mind 0.5 of int. Not sure it ever will be. And if it is, it's likely to have a similiar effect on haste, and hence you would be gemming haste anyway.

8085 breakpoint is a very misleading theory. it really isn't worth what you might think it is and it does not change the value of haste as much as people think, either way.

[Spinalcrack]

Actually you will find once you are just over 8085 haste, haste drops a lot, and crit can be slightly higher. But, even with that being true, I did say, which you left out in your reply,

I agree gemming crit is a bad idea. Int or haste only

The theory isn't misleading if you know the pp value of the breakpoint. And it's important to realize that gemming Int_Haste gems is a good idea up to 8085 and then swapping out those gems for Int as you stay above 8085, which is what the OP was asking.