Anyone else have people failing in HoF?

[cFortyfive]

If there wouldn't be people failing even the easiest encounter mechanics involving movement most raids would be cleared after like 10 tries at best.

[Dreknar20]

Only had a few members have issue with the discs, our issue was the damage done while inside the protective domes. We're also 4/6 MSV normal and tried HoF yesterday. Every platform except that AoE physical damage with the domes we did fine with. That damage just seemed too much for our healers.

same problem here

[cFortyfive]

same problem here

Well as far as I see it the solution to every aoe healing problem seems to be a monk.

[Ragnarocket]

Our group was having similar problems tonight, our druid healer and our holy paladin (we're 10 man) could usually keep people alive through the Scream when they were both good. However our druid healer was our one person having some issues with the Sonic Discs portion of the fight. If she died early we would usually have problems getting through the Screams. I think we'll get it come our next raid night. We only had about an hour to work on Vizier tonight so I imagine we'll have that one down before too long. It's a trickier fight than we had anticipated going in. The MCs into a Scream phase at the end tend to be our tricky spots.

It's a very learnt fight, once you learn how to do handle each ability the fight will be a cakewalk.

[PHsname]

Discs take a few pulls for melee to get used to. If your ranged had issue with them at any point, then they're bad.

That said...some people just don't intuit things well in this game. If your raid is having issues and wants to progress more, you'll have to look into replacing some people. If you don't want to do that as a raid, then you'll have to work with them.

[Lethora]

I guess we got lucky on our kill last night as we got no MCs in last phase, we just had alternating Discs and F&V. However, 3rd F&V killed 4 people including 2 healers and we almost wiped there.
Very messy fight, I didn't like it at all.

[Maelstrom51]

it stinks when everything runs smoothly but that two year old nvidia isn't up to the task.

Yeah my nvidia GT 9800 says otherwise. Don't blame the hardware.

[Hygeia]

We killed Vizier Zor'lok after a couple of tries, first telling everyone about the disks....dont go to far to the edges stay close like melee range and run in a circle..and everyone found that helpfull, then the Shield phase...run faster into shield and use personal cd's oh yeah and lets try 3 healing it..then it died Yay. 2nd boss Lord Ta'yak in essence is not that a difficult encounter, just still having issues with Unseen Strike sometimes some ppl dont get hit to share the damage then only 5 ppl get hit and the rest take no damage so I dont know if other of you find that sometimes this still looks a bit buggy...we only got 3 attempts on the last phase and im still having issue running these tornados i feel so stupid! Since im a healer it feels bad if u die so close at the end.

[Zoraxe]

Our guild is having similar problems however we seem to have 100-40% down pat pretty well now. We actually hit the enrage earlier today at ~6% (10 min 20 sec). Personally i think people stop dpsing in the last phase whilst moving from shells to mc killing to disk dodging etc. Also a good tip is to have all the range stack on a point, and have the tank have his back to them. Means exhale will almost always(we have 1 melee, feral who sits behind the boss) hit the tank instead of the range

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 10:47 AM ----------

Another thing we found was to have everyone spec out of cc's and to blow all cc's pre mc phase. Even if you stack as far away from the stairs as possible a preist aoe fear will still somehow get your healers in the silencing stuff which really isnt great

[Gilian]

I don't really understand what you want to hear. Deal with it. Since you are not in the position to 'punish' or kick them you could leave for another guild. Trust me you don't want to stay there and hope they improve. I have tried to help people for a full year when I had my own guild. Unfortunately when you are on a low pop realm and barely get recruits you can't really take action. After a year there were barely improvements. Funny thing was when we started being more direct and harsh they started complaining while we had been holding their hands for months and they didn't show any improvement on their part. Seriously, not worth your time.

[Deleted]

We figured out after some wipes that apart from the discs that radiate outwards from boss, there are other discs that spawn roughly 10-15+ yards away from boss and they move perpendicular (90 degree angle) relative to discs sent by boss. Therefore, the safest way to avoid them would be to stay in 5-10yard range and keep running around the boss, thus eliminating the risk of a disc spawning on top of you or coming out of nowhere , which happens quite often if you stay far from boss. Moreover, you should almost completely forget about DPS-ing or even healing while the discs are being channeled, its just too risky.

[Seriss]

Well as far as I see it the solution to every aoe healing problem seems to be a monk.

We did it with paladin, resto druid, resto shaman. Insane dmg, yes, but we used 2 CDs for each of the Force and Verve phases and it went well. When the tree did tranq, I did ascendance. When the tree did treeform, I did healing tide. We always do it like this when one healer-CD doesn't seem to be enough. We do also have a monk in the roster, but he was on rotation for that encounter.

The last phase is extremely icky when a healer gets MCed. Get that MC over and done with ASAP.

[ttak82]

As many have pointed out, OP is not in a unique position. There is not much you can do about individual performance.

Now to some of the tacts:
____
@Zoraxe
Our guild is having similar problems however we seem to have 100-40% down pat pretty well now. We actually hit the enrage earlier today at ~6% (10 min 20 sec). Personally i think people stop dpsing in the last phase whilst moving from shells to mc killing to disk dodging etc. Also a good tip is to have all the range stack on a point, and have the tank have his back to them. Means exhale will almost always(we have 1 melee, feral who sits behind the boss) hit the tank instead of the range
Another thing we found was to have everyone spec out of cc's and to blow all cc's pre mc phase. Even if you stack as far away from the stairs as possible a preist aoe fear will still somehow get your healers in the silencing stuff which really isnt great
___

This is good advice; I also had to spec out of Narrow Escape as a hunter.

____
@Feanor306
We figured out after some wipes that apart from the discs that radiate outwards from boss, there are other discs that spawn roughly 10-15+ yards away from boss and they move perpendicular (90 degree angle) relative to discs sent by boss. Therefore, the safest way to avoid them would be to stay in 5-10yard range and keep running around the boss, thus eliminating the risk of a disc spawning on top of you or coming out of nowhere , which happens quite often if you stay far from boss. Moreover, you should almost completely forget about DPS-ing or even healing while the discs are being channeled, its just too risky.
____

This is also important; the discs split into two the further they go ad bounce of walls. However, being able to dps during attenuation can make or break your chance to down the boss (prolly more important for hardmode), especially at low gear levels. There should ideally be zero damage during the phase but healers can toss an instant when required.

My own group was also having issues wth phase 2 mcs and once we have sorted that out, should be a kill. As a friend told me, you have to be fast on the mcd players. dont pass it off to others thinking you can stay and dps on boss.

[silverhatred]

Don't let the rogue gouge the tank. Results are both hilarious and annoying.

[Freedom]

I know what you are talking about - I ate 1 ring and others had 9-14(!) rings on our best attempt (11%) last night, and as a SMF Fury warr if I removed Execute damage from that attempt I still would have been #1 damage done. Whatever, I am just along for the ride, and as long as someone I really like is on I still find raiding enjoyable.

[Maijah]

Discs take a few pulls for melee to get used to. If your ranged had issue with them at any point, then they're bad.

That said...some people just don't intuit things well in this game. If your raid is having issues and wants to progress more, you'll have to look into replacing some people. If you don't want to do that as a raid, then you'll have to work with them.

I don't really see how being melee has anything to do with it. Normal raiders should be able to figure out the mechanic within one or two tries (at max). The attenuation ability is channeled so there's no need to have anyone in melee range. As soon as DBM or whatever you use alerts you that attenuation is upcoming, all melee can step back. It's easiet to avoid the rings when mid-range on the platforms. I don't even run in a circle; I just zigzag back and forth and can actually stay in one place for a decent amount of time.

[Kesandri]

I'm thinking that if you're 4/6 in MV on Normal, that your general approach to raiding is - as you say as well - more relaxed. And as such, you will have people who fail on "easy" mechanics. You can't really expect people to do much better, if you accept people for a more casual approach.

That said, if you feel like some of your raiders are constantly below the expected average of your raiding team, I'd strongly suggest that you a) tell them they have to improve, b) try to give them advice or c) just replace them.

If nothing helps and you're just getting more and more frustrated, maybe it's not really them failing to live up to your standards, maybe it's you who're actually too good to be playing with them.

This I would very much agree with.

It takes a certain mentality of player to have cleared Mv and be killing heroics + HoF normals from the word go. Most 'casual' guilds will not have cleared MV and most certainly will have done very well to have killed a HoF boss so far.
For the average casual guild, you will probably find its made up of a mixture of decent/experienced players and also less experienced/less skilled. It will not be filled by a raid all capable of completing mechanics fast and easy and that is why casual guilds have an average progression.

My raid used to be casual and over time as some players left/move on and were replaced by other players (normally friends of friends) our raid team has actually become stronger and stronger replacing weaker members with more experienced/skilled ones, which was not intentional but just happened. We have gone from not clearing a raid during same tier to not only clearing, but clearing with spare time which I can say right now was never expected a year ago.

The thing you personally has to decide whats more important for you, playing with friends in a casual guild, or progression with equally/better skilled people. From experience you cant normally have both unless your very lucky.

[Squirl]

I don't really see how being melee has anything to do with it. Normal raiders should be able to figure out the mechanic within one or two tries (at max). The attenuation ability is channeled so there's no need to have anyone in melee range. As soon as DBM or whatever you use alerts you that attenuation is upcoming, all melee can step back. It's easiet to avoid the rings when mid-range on the platforms. I don't even run in a circle; I just zigzag back and forth and can actually stay in one place for a decent amount of time.

He has a gigantic hitbox. So big in fact, that ranged should be stepping into max melee range to avoid the rings that bounce off the wall. Melee can just strafe around and continue DPSing through the ability. Casters should continue using instants too. Movement is not a reason to stop DPS.

[Maijah]

He has a gigantic hitbox. So big in fact, that ranged should be stepping into max melee range to avoid the rings that bounce off the wall. Melee can just strafe around and continue DPSing through the ability. Casters should continue using instants too. Movement is not a reason to stop DPS.

Right, I agree. I just meant that melee doesn't need to wait until the last second to back off from where the rings first spawn. It seemed like the original commentor was saying melee should be given a break since they are so much closer to the source of the rings. Melee might need to pay better attention to get out of the way faster, but, yes, it is absolutely possible to dps during this phase. Though, I will admit, I'd rather my raiders stay alive than die while trying to dps. Because, apparently, avoiding discs is hard.

[Squirl]

The thing you personally has to decide whats more important for you, playing with friends in a casual guild, or progression with equally/better skilled people. From experience you cant normally have both unless your very lucky.

I don't see how you couldn't make friends with people you spend 16+ hours (low end) a week with in a progression guild. They usually only get on your case if you're not playing well; something that's expected in a progression guild. You can't take being called out personally or you won't last long because everyone messes up eventually.

Most people in progression guilds are fairly friendly, albeit elitist, but they wouldn't last long either if they were douchebags.

I recently moved from a very casual guild to a hardcore guild. They're much nicer than everyone on my server said they were. They just don't tolerate bads.

Barring any serious personality conflicts, it's impossible not to raid with friends in a progression guild.