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  1. #1

    5.1 MM specific buff. Not on front page.

    Source: http://www.wowhead.com/news=207873/5...model-and-more

    Someone linked to this in another thread and I think it deserves a separate discussion.

    CA phase being extended from above 90% health back to above 80% health.

    In my head I feel like this is a large dps increase but what do you guys think? Currently it feels like the CA phase ends extremely fast due to everyone popping cds at the start of the fight. And don't even try to aimed shot an add....

  2. #2
    Gara'jal is still at 74% before lust even ends for us. 30 Secs at Careful Aim range won't give better burst than BM :7.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Gara'jal is still at 74% before lust even ends for us. 30 Secs at Careful Aim range won't give better burst than BM :7.
    You guys lust on the pull? I'm not opposed to that just never seen it done >.>

    Though I would say that since the boss gets to 74%, with you being able to aimed shot for most of CA, that would be a decent buff.

  4. #4
    not enough but still a step in the right direction.

  5. #5
    Chimera NEEDS to hit as hard as Kill Command which is about a 20% buff.
    "Druid must be boss, Hunter is just Drain-monkey.

    Hunter scatter this rogue.
    Hunter drain that priest.
    Hunter where is frost trap. Bad Hunter! No banana!
    Hunter where is flare? No flare, you get replaced by retarded warrior!"

    -Huainy

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    You guys lust on the pull? I'm not opposed to that just never seen it done >.>

    Though I would say that since the boss gets to 74%, with you being able to aimed shot for most of CA, that would be a decent buff.
    Lusting on the pull is ideal because that's pretty much the only time everyone is up getting solid DPS on the boss.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    Lusting on the pull is ideal because that's pretty much the only time everyone is up getting solid DPS on the boss.
    Not to swing much further off topic, but traditionally I understood that at 20%, everyone comes out, and you lust and burn.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    Lusting on the pull is ideal because that's pretty much the only time everyone is up getting solid DPS on the boss.
    Last I checked, once the boss hits 20% the spirit world totems no longer spawn meaning everyone would be focusing on the boss. Would that not be an ideal time? (Assuming everyone is alive, otherwise at the start I would agree).

  9. #9
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotjuice View Post
    Chimera NEEDS to hit as hard as Kill Command which is about a 20% buff.
    I would say no to this. Marksmanship has both Chimera and Aimed Shot to Beast Masterys Kill Command. Compared to how Survival have both Explosive Shot and Black Arrow.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamanis View Post
    Last I checked, once the boss hits 20% the spirit world totems no longer spawn meaning everyone would be focusing on the boss. Would that not be an ideal time? (Assuming everyone is alive, otherwise at the start I would agree).
    Speaking of that fight in particular, no. You want to try and avoid stacking lust and executes because it in turn reduces the execute time, which reduces the overall raid DPS. You also have a pre-pot, and all ICDs with heroism on the pull, all major cooldowns are guaranteed to be up, it makes it easier to stack raid cds like consecutive stormlashes and skull banners, etc. etc.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    Lusting on the pull is ideal because that's pretty much the only time everyone is up getting solid DPS on the boss.
    Funnily enough this never happens in practice because of boss phases and how you want a certain phase and want to lust away another.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotjuice View Post
    Chimera NEEDS to hit as hard as Kill Command which is about a 20% buff.
    hää??? chimera and aimed do both hit harde then kill command, even if you are under BW
    just went on PTR (okey, slight Aimed buff there which is not on live yet) and quickly tried the spells. (both speccs with ferocity pets)
    KC hit for 21k. Chimera for 35k, and Aimed 35-40k. (of course gear is bad at 460 ilvl, but still)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    hää??? chimera and aimed do both hit harde then kill command, even if you are under BW
    just went on PTR (okey, slight Aimed buff there which is not on live yet) and quickly tried the spells. (both speccs with ferocity pets)
    KC hit for 21k. Chimera for 35k, and Aimed 35-40k. (of course gear is bad at 460 ilvl, but still)
    Your numbers are so incredibly low. My average kill command was 53.7k on my last Feng kill. The highest Marksmen hunter ( of two) had an average Aimed of 53k and Chimera of 55k. They are all incredibly close in their current setting.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by refire View Post
    Your numbers are so incredibly low. My average kill command was 53.7k on my last Feng kill. The highest Marksmen hunter ( of two) had an average Aimed of 53k and Chimera of 55k. They are all incredibly close in their current setting.

    Here are some parses that backs up these statements within a little only a little bit of variation.

    BM Hunter's pet on Feng kill: Top 10 parse http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-by...?s=1228&e=1587
    Kill command Average of 58k hits, 120k crits.

    Marks Hunter on Feng kill top 10 parse http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oe...?s=2164&e=2529
    Chimera shot average of 49k hits, 100k crits.
    Aimed shot average of 53k hits, 134k crits.

    So chimaera shot as a primary nuke, hits weaker than kill command, it also has 50% longer cd and costs 5 more focus. ( Not to mention it cannot be buffed by a cooldown similar to Bestial wrath in terms of damage/focus cost.)

    Aimed shot hits about as equally as kill command, however its a focus dump while in CA phase, and a proc otherwise. It isn't reliably used as this person only got off 17 in that kill. for 5.5%!!!! of his damage. Thats pathetically low.


    Lets also throw in survival for funzies. Heres a parse from feng 25 top 10 parse: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ta...?s=3541&e=3901
    Explosive shot: 19k hits, 41k crits. Remember, it ticks 3 times so multiply it times 3 for 57k hits, and 123k crits.
    Not only is this close to the others, but it costs half the focus of both KC and CS/AiS and can be used MUCH more often due to procs.


    I'm going to try something else. Using the same parses for both BM and Marks, i'm going to compare focus generators and focus dumps. (Steady shot/cobra shot) and arcane shots.

    Arcane shot
    Marks- Lower by about 3k. This I would assume to gear, i'm too tired to check their armories and it may have changed anyway.

    Steady shot vs cobra shot

    Steady shot averages: 8k!!! hit, 17k crits

    Cobra shot averages: 16k hits, 34k crits.

    For a spec that has a high emphesis on hunter personal dps. Marks is extremely not hunter personal. It offers no shots that bring more damage than its class counterparts.

    edit: man this looks longer than intended >.>

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by refire View Post
    Your numbers are so incredibly low. My average kill command was 53.7k on my last Feng kill. The highest Marksmen hunter ( of two) had an average Aimed of 53k and Chimera of 55k. They are all incredibly close in their current setting.
    as i said, i quickly went on PTR, an no, I did not raid PTR until 480+ ilvl, its the starter gear you get i had on (mentioned at the end, ilvl 460. and those were noncrit numbers, not avrg)
    well what we learn from this, is that KC seems to scale very well! it's only RAP based compared to aimed/CS... and there's me that thought weapondmg dependant spells would scale better. in that case there's not much hope of MM comming back? :-(

  16. #16
    I think Steady Shot needs a little buff, not a big one but a little one. Like 8-12% + CA being 80%

    Also change CA to below 25% and add Kill Shot to it. This would fix everything!
    Last edited by Gurushockin; 2012-11-01 at 10:27 PM.

  17. #17
    Marks needs a 100% redesign. With all the bosses being pet unfriendly in Heart of Fear hunters need to have acess to a petless spec just like warlocks have. Garalon has a buff that BM hunters can only get half of because it doesn't transfer to the pet. That right there causes a MASSIVE imbalance from hunters to every single other class spec in game. THat is also not the only fight hunters are pretty much shit on.

    They claim hunters are doing well when they are constantly and consistantly being out performed by most every other class.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    Marks needs a 100% redesign. With all the bosses being pet unfriendly in Heart of Fear hunters need to have acess to a petless spec just like warlocks have. Garalon has a buff that BM hunters can only get half of because it doesn't transfer to the pet. That right there causes a MASSIVE imbalance from hunters to every single other class spec in game. THat is also not the only fight hunters are pretty much shit on.

    They claim hunters are doing well when they are constantly and consistantly being out performed by most every other class.
    There have been plenty of pet unfriendly bosses in the past that haven't ruined the class. I don't think hunters need some mechanic that lets them remove their pet. Having the pet is important as its probably the most central class theme outside of the fact that....we're ranged? Warlocks manipulate demons so it makes some sense to kill it for his own benefit.


    Marks isn't mechanically complex or that much more gear dependent, its just plain weak. Compare it to BM, it has 1 less cd, weaker focus generators, focus dumps, main nukes, weaker pet. Only advantages is that it has a free shot that BM doesn't have ( Aimed shot proc), and better auto shots through its mastery. If for instance, its focus generators or nukes were stronger, we would easily see closer damage.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    There have been plenty of pet unfriendly bosses in the past that haven't ruined the class. I don't think hunters need some mechanic that lets them remove their pet. Having the pet is important as its probably the most central class theme outside of the fact that....we're ranged? Warlocks manipulate demons so it makes some sense to kill it for his own benefit.
    The major thing is that since the pre patch of MoP the pet does a LOT more of the hunters DPS, even as survival and MM, so while you've been able to not really lose all that much dps on a pet un-friendly fight in the past, it will now affect you a lot more.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    The major thing is that since the pre patch of MoP the pet does a LOT more of the hunters DPS, even as survival and MM, so while you've been able to not really lose all that much dps on a pet un-friendly fight in the past, it will now affect you a lot more.
    that is what i am saying, take the first boss in HoF - when you hit p2 the 3 "platforms" get locked, if you pet is up there when they lock he is useless the rest of the fight, no resummon, no dismiss, no nothing, as a BM hunter BOOM 50% damage loss right there. Or if you have a slow tank to get to the boss on a platform swap in p1 pet is instant killed (pets have dash so the can outrun everyone on the swap which is intentional for max pet uptime.

    3rd boss in HoF you stand in a puddle for 100% increased damage, the pet doesn't get the buff when in one, and it they pet does not get a boot when you are in one, so the 100% buff is now a 50% buff for BM and 75-80% for SV and Marks.

    in the past even as BM your pet was at MOST 35% of your damage, now your pets in total (main pet stampede dire beast) can be up to 55-60% of your total damage as BM, hunters cannot afford a "pet unfriendly" fight and still even do reasonable damage like they could in the past.

    So it is a very big deal when there are mechanics that do not work on pets, or ones that work directly against them. Blizzard is still building encounters around the fact that pets are no big deal, this needs to change or they need to change Marks (which is so bad it beeds re-doing anyways) into a spec that has 0 reliance on a pet.

    Its obvious they want to keep it world of castercraft. But not even melee is having as hard of a time with some mechanics as BM hunters in the new raid. Hell with the amount of bugs (no pun intented) that people ran into in heart of fear its a wonder it was ever tested.

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